2007 Viper AX Challenge vs SRT

[Tom F&L GoR]

They sent a note that cameras aren't allowed. But we had this spy shot from a Dodge training class the Wizard went to: (notice the new aero package)

Further word has it that the SRT drivers took lessons from senior executives... here's someone's failing driving test:

Of course, after the event I could find I've just put my foot in my mouth.

Mpppht!

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Okay, Tom. This is it. I have a 2:30 flight out of LGA tomorrow. See you in the evening at the reception. I am so fired up !!

Andrew

 

[Jerz Viper]

Andrew,
I know it's going to be hard, but try and get some sleep tonight buddy! You should always be well rested before issuing a good A#$ Kicking

Call my cell before you get behind the wheel if you need me to motivate you my friend

Tom,
Remember, you are the MASTER of AX Now it's your turn to show them

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I get in the car at 10AM and plan to make the reception in time. It'll be fun; how many times do you get to "test drive" a new car as much as you want and as sideways as you want? I'm looking forward to the NY team - we have one raging bull and one aging bull, so a good mix of enthusiasm and treachery.

I'll let everyone else guess who's the raging and the aging bull...

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Still bringing my Video camera. We'll see what they allow and don't allow.

AC

 

[XXX BLK]

Andrew and Tom...GOOD LUCK and DRIVE SAFE...We are cheering for you...NY/CT VIPER CLUB

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Well, it's all over. Great time, many thanks to SRT for a good competition ! If it wasn't for Uncle Bill, we wouldn't have come anywhere close to the SRT times. Bob C and all the other officers, thanks for the effort and all the set up.

Can't talk about some of the things we saw on the Proving Grounds site or we would have to be killed, but a very cool place sort of like the spy pics you see in magazines.

Drove the '08 Viper. My feedback ? I'm sure it's well advanced, looks great. I like the red best. But I decided I'll always take very good care of my car and keep it forever, or as long as I can. The drive-by-wire doesn't give that snap that the cable does in the older cars. I'd call it a softer car; something you could drive every day more than the older models. Softer shifts, clutch, steering, and very very quiet. Nowhere near the sounds we are used to hearing out of a Viper. But still if you ordered one, I'm sure you will not be disappointed.

Thanks again, and oh yeah, SRT won. Sorry guys. I think me and Tom still made a respectable showing. If I can scan in the results, I will try to post.

Andrew

 

[Jerz Viper]

So now I know why you didn't answer your phone...........

Well I'm sure you two gave it your best shot and I'm glad it was you guys who represented us folks from the North east!

Better luck next time fella's

 

[Warfang]

Well, it's all over. Great time, many thanks to SRT for a good competition ! If it wasn't for Uncle Bill, we wouldn't have come anywhere close to the SRT times. Bob C and all the other oficers, thanks for the effort and all the set up.

Can't talk about some of the things we saw on the Proving Grounds site or we would have to be killed, but a very cool place sort of like the spy pics you see in magazines.

Drove the '08 Viper. My feedback ? I'm sure it's well advanced, looks great. I like the red best. But I decided I'll always take very good care of my car and keep it forever, or as long as I can. The drive-by-wire doesn't give that snap that the cable does in the older cars. I'd call it a softer car; something you could drive every day more than the older models. Softer shifts, clutch, steering, and very very quiet. Nowhere near the sounds we are used to hearing out of a Viper. But still if you ordered one, I'm sure you will not be disappointed.

Thanks again, and oh yeah, SRT won. Sorry guys. I think me and Tom still made a respectable showing. If I can scan in the results, I will try to post.

Andrew

This is why the club needs an organized AX challenge series, where the local clubs meet regularly to practice their AX skills and compete among each other, with the winners face off against the SRT guys. But what do I know? The caravaning around sightseeing and sipping wine seems to be more desirable as club events.

Good job representing us against guys that live and breath the Viper.

As for the 08... I wasn't too sure about the drive by wire, and now from your impressions, I know I won't like it. Nothing worse that stepping on the gas and have to wait for the car to go "oh yeah... you want me to go fast"... no matter how quick it translates. A fraction of a second can seem to long. Your brain will notice the difference, and you feel less connected to the car.

I hope I'm wrong. Can't wait for a test drive.

 

[mike & juli]

Thank you, Andrew for representing us...must've been very cool to see what SRT brought along. Drive-by-wire does not interest us, we are holding onto our '05 as well. BUT, we will still test-drive an '08 once we get near one!! Glad to hear you and Tom had a good time~~~juli

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Yes, SRT did much better than the VCA team. Yes, they stacked the deck and had a few ringers in reserve. Yes, despite their denials, there were enough whispers that they practice, they drive, they tune, and they know the '08 very well. Duh. I think once again the VCA team has learned how big the home field advantage really is, and SRT deserves to win. They had the talent, they knew what they were doing, and best of all, they wanted to win.

That's what I got out of the weekend. I drove 10+ hours from NY to drive six runs of about 80 seconds each in the '08 Viper, but my take-away was that every Dodge guy I talked to was thrilled about where the company was headed. They liked the financial performance of Nardelli, they grin at being out from under Daimler, the love that Jim Press has come over from Toyota, and there sounds like there is an active executive drive and ride program where the SRT guys explain their products to the big wigs.

When I was at the big oil company that was "acquired" by another big oil company there wasn't a single good thing said about it. Yet these SRT guys are bubbling, so I expect the next few years to be pretty interesting. Like the commercial says, visit your Dodge dealer today.... and tomorrow.

Nice to meet Bob (thanks for IGT), George, Chris (Canadian Mentos are pretty good), Andreas (vielen Dank), Marv (great times), and Steve for the first time. Didn't have much time, but good to see Tony and Larry. I met Ralph, designer of the Gen 3 car, and he is one sharp dude.

Dodge has a pretty bright future.

 

[mike & juli]

Tom--thank you for filling us in, that sounds like GREAT news!!! Good to hear the SRT people are optimistic about the future. ~juli

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

And another thing. I have to thank Jim for letting me drive his SRT Charger through the course after the AX was done. I was shocked how much fun that car was to drive, and how well it handled.

What I also left out was how cool it was to hear these guys talk about their own ideas and how those ideas came to be in the cars we see on the street every day. Here we were talking with the guys who just woke up one day, had an idea for an improvement, and before you now it they are teling us how that new part, or improvement got into production. Just really something to hear the wealth of knowledge coming out from these guys' years of experience. And lots of them are young guys who look as though they want to be around for years to come and are, like Tom said, very positive as to the direction the company is going. The whole day these guys eat, drink, talk, breath cars cars cars. The passion they have for what they do at SRT is very reassuring and I can appreciate better all the effort they put into the testing that goes on. They are just regular guys who love what they do and it's more than just a job to them.

After this weekend, I'd like to see the 10th VOI be in Detroit. I will drive there, no question about it, and it'll be great to see all the SRT guys again. Maybe even a little AX to resurface at VOI ??

Hey Bill P, maybe we can set it up in that lot outside the resturant we ate and invite SRT to our course and we'll use our cars and it might be a different story. lololol

AC

 

[CitySnake]

Yes, SRT did much better than the VCA team. Yes, they stacked the deck and had a few ringers in reserve. Yes, despite their denials, there were enough whispers that they practice, they drive, they tune, and they know the '08 very well. Duh. I think once again the VCA team has learned how big the home field advantage really is, and SRT deserves to win. They had the talent, they knew what they were doing, and best of all, they wanted to win.

That's what I got out of the weekend. I drove 10+ hours from NY to drive six runs of about 80 seconds each in the '08 Viper, but my take-away was that every Dodge guy I talked to was thrilled about where the company was headed. They liked the financial performance of Nardelli, they grin at being out from under Daimler, the love that Jim Press has come over from Toyota, and there sounds like there is an active executive drive and ride program where the SRT guys explain their products to the big wigs.

When I was at the big oil company that was "acquired" by another big oil company there wasn't a single good thing said about it. Yet these SRT guys are bubbling, so I expect the next few years to be pretty interesting. Like the commercial says, visit your Dodge dealer today.... and tomorrow.

Nice to meet Bob (thanks for IGT), George, Chris (Canadian Mentos are pretty good), Andreas (vielen Dank), Marv (great times), and Steve for the first time. Didn't have much time, but good to see Tony and Larry. I met Ralph, designer of the Gen 3 car, and he is one sharp dude.

Dodge has a pretty bright future.

Tom,
Can you give us some of your impressions of the new Viper? Especially under hard driving conditions?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Thanks for the props , but if I hadn't hit a cone on my best run I might have been a bit more help?! It was fun to meet Tom and Andrew ( pretty much knew the rest of the group), and they both made NY and the NE Region proud. Having driven both the old Snake and the new one ,I think I understand Tom's assessment of the drive by wire, as it is not as tactile as the Gen IIs. I do think, though, given a bit more seat time than just 6 quick runs, that Tom would come to find it very positive. I was blessed with a short drive down Interstate 75 to downtown Detroit about 4 weeks ago, so I was slighty used to the clutch , tranny, and the hammer pedal. I would probaby have used the word smooth , instead of soft, just due to the mental image,as the car is still a beast. We likely ran the fastest autocross ever conducted in this venue, and the car is still raw, though refined over the Gen IIs to a point that it will take a bit to get accustomed to. We all discussed we need a bit more seat time prior to the event , and maybe a test day for the VCA could be viewed in the future.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Tom,
Can you give us some of your impressions of the new Viper? Especially under hard driving conditions?

Scott, I would say that it's a car that is better than the typical driver. You really get going quickly and easily (I was surprised how few burnouts there were), the shifter seems to have a "mild" version of a short shifter relative to a Gen 2 cornstalk shifter, the clutch works without thinking about it, and like usual, I didn't brake as hard and as often as I should have. My pre-ABS keeps me from flooring the brake pedal, but when I did, it behaves well. With enough speed and a poor enough corner entry (like I often did) you can eventually make the car push or be loose through a turn, but either is catch-able and controllable.

We wore through two or three sets of tires per car. (I calculated that the Michelin cup tires were good for about an hour's use.) So more than likely some of the spins were due to only front or rear tires being changed and therefore behaving a little different than expected.

The ergonomics are pretty good. The seats are comfy and in the right place, and I think most people could wear a helmet in the coupes without issues. (I'm 5'11" and was OK.)

While earlier models received the "you wrecked, you were bitten by the Snake!" comment, I think if you wreck this car, you were just going too stupid fast when you shouldn't have. It doesn't seem to have the snap bad behavior that I (have to) respect in the old cars.

As far as the dead pedal, cushioned and bolstered seats, starter button, outside door handles buried in the door, and a few other things - having a Gen 1, I have never seen such things on a Viper before!! How modern!

 

[CitySnake]

LOL!

Thanks Tom! It's interesting to read of everyone's experiences with the new Viper. Being a GEN1 macho guy, I expected you to experience the most change.

With an '08 on order, I'm excited about the change. But I guess there's a small part of me that fears the loss of the "raw animal" in the Gen1's and 2's. There's something exotic that's lost when you move from the most extreme end of the scale to something even just a bit closer than the edge. I realize that all the improvements make the car better in virtually every way and yet, even before I've made the change, a small part of me is already missing the "raw" experience that was part of the original Viper.

Just a brief melancholy moment.

Congrats on your attempt guys! Those SRT bastages are professional hustlers!

 

[SNAKE BITE]

Were you allowed to take any pictures?

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

They said no pics, but should have brought the camera becasue once at the AX site, many people were taking pics.

 

[mike & juli]

They said no pics, but should have brought the camera becasue once at the AX site, many people were taking pics.

Major bummer~~~juli

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

City:

Took my car out around the block last night just to get the cob webs off. I refuse to drive the car till the rear bumper/quarter gets fixed. Anyway, the first thing I noticed was the pedal. The '08 is a nice machine, and lots of power. Best case is for all those out there who could afford it, is to own both, but selling the gen2 for and 08 might be a tough act to follow in my opinion.

AC

 

[ACR steve]

Great job guys.............how did you both do against the other regions ?

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Hey Steve:

To answer your question. I don't know, casue I don't know who was from what region. What I can say is that Bill P did great. As always, I wish I had more runs to learn the car better. Coming from my 2000 to the 08 is a whole new ball game and lots of times I was to anxious, did to much experimenting and before I knew it I was done with my runs. I was not very happy with my time, as I am sure Tom would say the same, but I don't think we did that bad either. Our times were still better than half of the SRT guys. It is so obvious the runs that each of us had a spin, or made some mistake. Our times went up and down 2-3 seconds. It just seemed so tough to get this car back under control once you started to loose it. The key, I think, was not to get to that point. You needed to go slower, smoother, and end up faster.

Tell you one thing. Wish I had my car there.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Now tell me again how the participants were chosen? Looking at the times it is difficult to believe that this represents the best of the VCA, or even the best of a region.

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

YOu have to remember that the VCA reps were chosen simply by who attended thier regional events. Some of the really best guys may not have attended in some regions. It's still supposed to be fun, we did best we could. Life could always be better, but who's complaining.

 

[mike & juli]

And, gotta remember that Andrew IS considered one of the best in our region~! ~juli

 

[GR8_ASP]

Funny, the post with the names and times disappeared. Hmm.


BTW, no one in our region even mentioned this event (the Zone Director attends our board meetings but never brought it up). Only place to hear about it was here. And our region did have an autocross event. Hope you guys had fun, but to call it a VCA event is not right.

 

[ViperTony]

Funny, the post with the names and times disappeared. Hmm.


BTW, no one in our region even mentioned this event (the Zone Director attends our board meetings but never brought it up). Only place to hear about it was here. And our region did have an autocross event. Hope you guys had fun, but to call it a VCA event is not right.

Why rain on these guys' parade here? Do you feel you should've been invited? It sounds like you have issues with your zone director and/or region. Have you contacted them about it yet?

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Yeah, sounds like there is a regional problem. Maybe the word just didn't get out. The NJ Club made it clear, that's for sure. But hey, NY/NJ.....we are always on top of things right?

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Now tell me again how the participants were chosen? Looking at the times it is difficult to believe that this represents the best of the VCA, or even the best of a region.

Well, it didn't feel like we were the best because as I said, the home field advantage was pretty big. We are better in our own cars, I am sure of that. Some people can get into a completely different car from what they are used to and do well, but I can't. And since any non-Dodge employee has never driven an '08 before, the SRT guys that drive and develop the cars should do better. In my AX region you get 4 to 6 runs, but one at a time. They said their region does 3 at a time, twice. I would rather not do that and sit longer to figure out what I did well and not well. The tires were different that what I use and they were replaced only on half the car when needed. The course was ~80 seconds long, which taxes those that run 30-40 second courses. I have a five point and of course the '08 seat belt is a loosey three point. I was leaning on the steering wheel enough to have blisters on both thumbs where I stick them through the steering wheel.

But I'm not complaining, just admitting that it was a bigger challenge that I wasn't up to. Bill P was at the top of his game and showed me that observation and adaptation are pretty good skills to have.

In any case, your comment comes across as less than flattering to the participants, and so with two years notice I hope you and your regional officers can organize a qualifying event and then we won't have to snicker about who represents the VCA.