A Tale of Two Filters (lotsa pics)

Y2K5SRT

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Okay, make it three filters - it just wasn't as snappy of a title. ;)

Several folks asked for pictures of the different setups and I am more than happy to oblige. Sure enough, the postman delivered a beautiful set of bright green SRT-10 filters today, appropriately named "Green Filters" (clever, eh?). Okay, where to begin? How about pictures from the front of each set up while in the housing. First, the stock set up - note the resonator chamber front and center:

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Next, the Green set up, that are the almost exactly the same size as the stock filters (more on this in a minute):

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And finally, the K&N set up. This last one is decidedly different in that it has the K&N smooth "Y" tube which eliminates the various kinks and bends in the stock tube and also eliminates the resonator chamber:

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Now if you look closely at that picture, you may notice something a little goofy. Unlike the stock tube which fits snugly all the way around, there is the smallest of gaps at the back of the housing. Nothing major and I would think largely ineffectual, but who knows...

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Now the K&N filters are smaller than the stock and Green filters, which means less surface area. Or does it? One nifty feature on these filters is that they also have an open end instead of a closed panel as found on the stock and Green Filters:

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So how much difference is the size between the K&N and the stock/Green filters? Pretty noticeable:

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The above picture also gives you a pretty good idea of what the intake tubes look like. Here is what each of the set ups look like with the box opened up:

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Now here is an uneducated observation: If you look at the above pictures, you will note that the stock/Green filters are packed in pretty tight in the back, as well as top to bottom. In other words, to a layman like myself it would seem almost as though the filters would have LESS "breathing room" as they are butted up against the housing on three sides. The K&N, while smaller, also has more clearance on all sides. Just an observation.

Okay, about those Greens. First off, I did NOT test them other than for fit and finish. Didn't feel like hooking everything back up with the stock tube just for the Seat of the Pants (SOTP) impression. Now about that fit: They seem like they are EXACTLY the same size as the stock filters from every angle:

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Yet despite that impression, they took more work to get on than the stock filters. You have to really get your elbows into it to get them on the tubes - they are VERY tight. Maybe it is because my filters have 5800 miles of break-in, however I seem to recall they were always easy to pop on and off. Once you finally muscle them into place, the housing cover doesn't want to get on there as it does with the stock filters. Indeed, as this was strictly for photos, I gave up trying to get it to fit and screw back down. I imagine with a little work it should fit snugly and completely. Regardless, the REAL key is the airflow. The stock filter pleats are VERY tightly packed and even when holding it up to the light you can barely see any coming through. By contrast, the Green filters are spaced well and seem to allow a lot of light (and air) to come through. Here is what they look like from the inside:

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I have no doubt these will gain horsepower of some sort, the question is how much. We will find that out on Sunday. Finally, I leave you with a picture of the stock intake tube, sans filters. I neglected to undo the various clamps on the K&N set up in order to take a similar picture, however I think this picture gives you a very good idea of what your air goes through as it enters the engine from the filters, including that big resonator chamber on the left:

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Hope this post was of some interest, and once again a hearty thanks to JonB and PartsRack for the very generous loan of these filters to test on our Dyno Day. Watch for those results soon!
 

Hisserman

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Great documentation -- can't wait for dyno results. This caliber of work is a terrific contribution to the web site.
 

ViperRay

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Great work so far Chris! One issue not addressed though is how well do the different filters FILTER! Let's not forget that they are there to keep the air entering our engines clean! I bet we can get even more hp gain if we go sans filters but probably not a good idea, at least for prolonged periods of time (especially in dusty Kansas). It would be interesting to know the differences in air flow and the particle size and density transmitted through these filters under standardized conditions on a bench. It's seems somewhat analogous to oil filters of various flow rates...greater flow (larger pore sizes, etc.) means more particles get through. It's a trade-off; whether it's functionally important is another question. This will not be done of course, just a thought.
 

Joseph Houss

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Great Idea Viperray!

Chris, can you also dyno "sans" filters as a true benchmark?

Great job Chris!
 

jwwiii

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Chris;

A hearty thanks to YOU for such detailed reporting and great pics! You are doing all of us a great service (thanks to Jon.B for supplying the stuff) and I will be checking here daily for your next dyno comp's on the Green vs. stock, vs.K&N's.

I called Jon.B at PARTS RACK yesterday to order my K&N set-up. Because of overwhelming demand, Jon.B says there is a "back-order time of about 7-10 days" for the K&N's.

My question for you performance/engineering Guru's: what, if anything, is the reason/consequences of the "gap" Chris showed in the close-up pic of the gap on the K&N system?

I am theorizing (guessing?) that K&N investe research time/money to develop this system specifically for the SRT. So, does the "gap" have an intentional function?

Please remember, the "gap" question is just me asking if it could be intentional. I don't want people to think I am suggesting it is or might be intentional!

Thanks,

Jim
 

JonB

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Many thanks Chris, we certainly loaned them to the Right Guy. "Overdeliverd" as SnakePilot says. [ Great Small world story: SnakeP was flying Electras and B727s and I was working his weight and balance and Ground Traffic at St Louis in 69-72.We probably worked together, and only discovered this fact last month!]

Comments: Once the car is in motion, the air scoop 'pressurizes' the airbox and would likley eliminate the tight-clearance issues of Greens. This will be difficult to dyno for this effect, but maybe try to place a fan (or, dont laugh, a leaf blower) at the inlet?

The 'open end' of the K+N is a positive availability of surface area to make up for the shorter body.

2nd shipment of K+Ns arrived today, and all but 4 backorders ship TODAY.
4 remaining backorders from last week ship next week, and I have 4 more enroute
that are not spoken for. K+N produces these on an internal schedule
that can result in up to 14 day backorders, but we are "between the waves"
and can likely ship inside 7 days at this point.
 

GR8_ASP

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Great info Chris.

I did dyno mine without the filters using the stock intake tube. I have to look for the dyno results but they were not significant.
 

Cobra4B

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Why use two filters? I know it's setup that way, but wouldn't it be more efficient and smoother to use one large filter up front w/ a single tube... kind of like the Donaldson blackwing on a vette or a Vortex or a Halltech TRAP? K&N make a dual cone filter for the vettes too, but it's just one more filter to buy and creates more turbulance than a single filter setup. Just curious....
 

Daffy Duck Viper

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Yeah, baby. That's what I'm talking about!...and one of the reasons I'm here: To read and see - to learn! - great stuff like that. Fantastico!!! Awesome job, Chris...as usual. Also, a thanks to JonB. The filters didn't just magically make themselves available. You go with your bad self. :)

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pteam

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I want to revive this thread from the dead! Y2k5SRT you've had so many good threads and dyno graphs proving that the k&n makes 15-17 RWHP. I already have bought the k&N and installed it. My question is about the picture below.

Now if you look closely at that picture, you may notice something a little goofy. Unlike the stock tube which fits snugly all the way around, there is the smallest of gaps at the back of the housing. Nothing major and I would think largely ineffectual, but who knows...

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My question is if we were to close that hole would the K&N intake make even more than 15-17 RWHP? That hole goes through the ram air portion where the air comes in from the outside and goes straight through out the back of the air box into the engine. Air coming in goes through that hole and does NOT enter the intake going into the intake manifold. Also that hole would be leting hotter air in from the backside from the engine. Also I noticed there are a few other holes here and there like on the top of the intake which is much smaller than the hole pictured above and 2 small holes before you get to the filters which is part of the stock airbox. Do these holes matter? Would plugging them add even more horsepower or not?

Its really too bad k&n didnt make that part of the intake which fits into the manifold bigger so that hole wasnt there and that hole actually went into the intake manifold like the rest of the tube does.

Any expert opinions or anybody who has tried plugging these with results maybe even dyno results? Thanks in advance for everybody!
 
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CaptainDavid

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Vipermann

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With my K&Ns I used a power cutting/shaping tool to trim back the first two of these plastic thingies to allow more air into the ends of my K&N filters ... I felt an immediate 20-30 hp gain :D

kn1p.JPG
 

pteam

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With my K&Ns I used a power cutting/shaping tool to trim back the first two of these plastic thingies to allow more air into the ends of my K&N filters ... I felt an immediate 20-30 hp gain :D

kn1p.JPG

Can you post a pic of the after pic what it looks like? Maybe a few extra hp but not 20-30 :lmao:
 

mike & juli

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Wow...this was an old post, but a WELL-THOUGHT out one and time/effort put into it, thank you Chris.
We go back and forth with the K&N Cold Air intake/filters and the Green Filters...we keep finding that when we DRIVE we actually FEEL more SOTP with the GREEN filters inserted. We changed to K&N and when we just brought our car in to be tuned, the tune showed we were 10hp LESS than the previous tune...the only change was putting on the K&N instead of the Green Filters...so we believe in OUR car anyway...the green filters add the hp...plus seems more air gets thru. That's just our observation with our OWN car with the K&N cold air setup. EVERYone will have their own opinions, and probably actual dyno results as well. THANX Chris....as always. ~~juli
 

Racer Robbie

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I want to revive this thread from the dead! Y2k5SRT you've had so many good threads and dyno graphs proving that the k&n makes 15-17 RWHP. I already have bought the k&N and installed it. My question is about the picture below.




My question is if we were to close that hole would the K&N intake make even more than 15-17 RWHP? That hole goes through the ram air portion where the air comes in from the outside and goes straight through out the back of the air box into the engine. Air coming in goes through that hole and does NOT enter the intake going into the intake manifold. Also that hole would be leting hotter air in from the backside from the engine. Also I noticed there are a few other holes here and there like on the top of the intake which is much smaller than the hole pictured above and 2 small holes before you get to the filters which is part of the stock airbox. Do these holes matter? Would plugging them add even more horsepower or not?

Its really too bad k&n didnt make that part of the intake which fits into the manifold bigger so that hole wasnt there and that hole actually went into the intake manifold like the rest of the tube does.

Any expert opinions or anybody who has tried plugging these with results maybe even dyno results? Thanks in advance for everybody!


To answer your question about the holes in the upper and lower air box we solved this problem by installing thick closed cell foam PSA tape along the inside lip of the upper and lower air box cover where the cover meets the smooth tube in the middle. We also add foam to the outside of the upper cover too. This totally seals out hot outside air. We also have Green Filters available that will replace the filters that come in your K & N Filterer kit. These filters are NOT the same as the Green Filters that replace the OEM filters on an OEM air box.

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Vipermann

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Can you post a pic of the after pic what it looks like? Maybe a few extra hp but not 20-30 :lmao:

Yep, you've called me on my joke ... :D

I sold the car, so I can't take any 'after' pics of my hack job.
 

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