BTR STAGE 2 CYLINDER HEADS..........................

[Tom Welch]

Stage 2 heads are now installed on my 97 GTS. We are awaiting a set of the NEW Arrow Roller Rockers before we go to the dyno. They are somewhere in transit with most of everyones mail and packages.

As soon as we get them we will go to the dyno and then down to Moroso for the South FL Viper shootout this weekend.....should the parts arrive in time.

Here are basic specifications and pricing for our Stage 2 Heads:

1. Complete Port and Polish including combustion chambers with flow numbers charted (will exceed 260cfm @ .500 lift on intake, 225 cfm @ .500 lift exhaust)

2. Mopar Performance 2.02" Intake Valves, 1.6-" Exhaust Valves(tulip)

3. Five Angle Valve Job

4. BTR exclusive Double Valve Springs

5. BTR exclusive Titainium Retainers/Locks

6. Valve guides, stem seals, valve seats

7. Surface mill of .020 min

8. Arrow Roller Rocker Arms

9. Hardened Pushrods

All of the above PLUS our usual PERFORMANCE GUARANTEE! for an introductory price of $ 4,495.00 (Exchange or on your heads)

Shop around, a set of heads that flow these numbers WITH adjustable roller rockers and pushrods will cost you THOUSANDS more.

Our STAGE 1 heads which ustilize the stock rocker gear and stock valves will be introductory priced at $ 2,795.00 (exchange or on your heads) and will be ported to flow at least 240 cfm @ .500 lift

As soon as we dyno we will be able to calculate the power gains of the Stage 1 heads by the flow numbers from testing.

Thanks for reading,

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[RickV2K]

sounds very interesting.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

These are the 1.7 roller rockers right????

 

[Tom Welch]

Ron,

Yes, these roller rockers are 1.7 ratio. I have used this brand of rocker arm on Mopar Wedge engines for years with absolutely no problems. I am delighted to see that they now make a rocker assembly for the viper.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[99 R/T 10]

Hey Tom,
are the numbers the same for the Gen I heads as they are for the Gen II? Also, for comparison, what do the stock heads flow?

Mike

 

[Tom Welch]

Wilddude,

We have not tested a set of Gen 1 heads, yet. We hope to have a Gen 1 car for testing within the next few weeks.

Flow increase on the Stage 2 heads is @ 46 CFM over stock.

Stock heads were 226CFM @ .600", Stage 2 is 272 CFM at the same lift. 226CFM was peak flow on the stock heads, the stage 2 heads actually flowed greater as lift increased above .600", but those are unrealistic numbers based upon the cam lift of the stock to mildy modified viper.

We will have actual flow charts for stage 1 and 2 heads on our website this week along with pics, and dyno results that we will be completing tomorrow.

Thanks again for your questions,

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Where are the dyno/dragstrip #s?????

 

[Sniper]

Tom- Is there another Gen I you've been talking to? Give me a
call when you get the numbers worked out and if you don't
have my number, e-mail me.

My front end gets worked on tomorrow and will be done by
Friday.

 

[Tom Welch]

Matt, Ron,

Thanks for your patience. I made it to the dyno today. Here is the scenerio.

Installed the heads and Arrow 1.7 rockers.

Trailered the car to the dyno with no miles on the computer other than about 35 miles of local driving sunday after the tropical storm.

Car made 499.7 RWHP @ 515 RWtorque. That is a gain of approx. 50 RWHP over my car on an average pull previously. We chose to dyno with no computer learning time because that is the way customers cars will be dynoed after packages are installed on them by us. This the worst case scenerio. Im leaving tomorrow for a week and upon my return, Im going to pull off the STOCK corrugated intake tubes and replace them with our Max Flow Intake kit and drive about 350-400 miles. Then we will take it back to the dyno again. It should gain another 12-15 RWHP conservatively.

BTW, we made one nitrous pull. It was 650 RWHP @ 749 ft/lbs of Rear Wheel torque!

These numbers factored for drive train loss exceed by far the Flywheel numbers for our BTR 550, naturally aspirated package (499 + 15% = 587 BHP)and our BTR750 Super Snake package(650RWHP + 15% = 765 BHP). We look forward to returning to the dyno with some "learned" miles and our intake system for final dyno numbers for these packages.

Please check out our website as the packages and some of the head pics are uploaded. We will have the dyno sheets and flow numbers up by tomorrow with a little luck.

Tom

 

[Marc Lublin]

Tom,
I know you have probably posted this before so forgive me, but what exactly does your car have on it besides your new heads, rockers and Nitrous?

 

[MES]

Tom, I have some questions if you don't mind answering. I'm looking to add some more power to my car in about 2-3 months so I'm trying to become more educated.

1. Have you any HP numbers or guesses what your stage I verses stage II are?

2. How about some 1/4 mile times before and after w/o nitrous.

3. I'm somewhat concerned about you using different (unproven) rockers, springs, and some other components that have not been used on Viper heads, as far as I know. Why are your parts better than others? or are they just more cost effective?

4. A gain of 50 rwhp is impressive but I'm wondering why its not as much as Hennessey heads that are listed on this thread ? I have no idea what the cost for the Hennessy heads are but the gains seem to be bit more than yours. Can you explain the differences in parts/heads etc. between the two, if you know?

5. Can you install them? if so what's the turn around time? cost? shipping/delivery expense?

Thanks

 

[SEASNAKE]

Just for some info

I have been the guinea pig for the Arrow rockers in a Gen 1. I put on 2300 miles on them, including one track day with no problems at all. I went from Crower to the Arrow rockers and the dyno difference was down about 1 hp and up 4 ft-lbs tq. I didn't dyno them with the stock rocker arms to get the difference there. I feel much more comfortable with these than the crower rockers. I while post some pics sometime later. Feel free to email me if you want any more comments (or places to get them)

Dave

 

[Tom Welch]

MES,

Great questions indeed. I will answer the ones that I can.

1. We should be able to calculate pretty close the gains with stage 1 vs. stage 2 once we make a few more dyno pulls with some "learned" miles and a better induction system on my car.

2. I just got the heads on over the last weekend while the tropical storm was coming through. All of the dragstrips were closed either for the weather or because of the tragic events of last week. Believe me, I called every track in central florida! I will get to the drag strip next week as Im gone out of town this week. I expect a few more tenths off of the NON nitrous average times that we run. We usually run 11.30's to 11.40's on e.t. streets in the warm months.

3. I do not consider our parts to be any better per say than anyone elses. What I can say is that the combination of parts "fits" and works well. All of the parts including the Mopar Performance Stainless Steel Valves are proven. As for the rocker arms, expect to see alot more of Arrow Roller Rockers. They fit perfect, work great, and require no special fitment, not to mention their PRICE. They are made for Arrow by a very reputable, long time manufacturer of Mopar race rocker assemblies for "B" engines. I currently have a set on a 600+ hp 440 that have been in use over 10 years with no problems at all. Yes, price is part of the reason we chose to source parts, not to mention with an exclusive vendor we can better control the quality and it makes R&D much easier.

4. HMS claims UP TO 60 BHP from his "power pack", correct me if im wrong, John. They have a very good product. Our stage 2 head flowed almost identical to treynors head, (flow numbers will be on my site over the next few days) My best answer for your question about the gains of that particular set of heads is three-fold;
1. Treynor, the customer, claims the heads were milled consdiderably, as a matter of fact, pushrod length was a problem. His cranking compression being 190-200 is higher than mine which was 180 "cold". Higher compression means more power. Higher compression is not a wanted item on a nitrous motor like mine. My heads were milled enough to add about .1 gain in compression(neglegible) 9.1 to 1 vs treynor at 10.5 to 1?
2. Treynors engine was way down on power with exhaust mods unlike most pre 99' vipers. I have to suspect that better flowing heads and rocker arm ratio helped him realize some of the power in the exhaust mods....this of course is my theory.
3. My car had no "learn" miles on the computer and was using the stock airbox and stock intake tubes.....a definate restriction when more flow is required. We will be installing an intake kit and "driving in" the computer before we go back to the dyno next weekend.

5. Of course, we can install them for you. We have 2 packages that include cylinder head upgrades. If you just want heads they are priced at $ 4495.00 for the stage 2, including Roller Rockers. Email me for prices on shipping, labor and small parts(gaskets, etc). We can even pick up and deliver your car for you.

Thanks again for your questions,

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[HouseofSpeed]

Tom...congrats on getting your head program off the ground...the only comment you made that worries me is in reference to "cranking compression"....which is in no way related to actual compression ratio...or cylinder pressure in any application.


The formula for figuring compression ratio is static and involves a comparison of volume in a given cylinder...with the piston at BDC and at TDC. AGAIN, this has nothing to do with what one sees from performing a compression test. Apex tried to make this reference as well....and I suggest you guys stick to bolt-ons and nitrous as opposed to generating theories on the Otto cycle engine.

Other than that little matter....good luck on the head work.

 

[Tom Welch]

Mark,

I don't mind answering any questions. My car has only those items that are marketed on my website. As for performance enhancements, in addition to the nitrous and stage 2 heads I only have a set of Belanger headers and exhaust. I have been marketing that product for almost 2 years. I will be installing a set of our Max Flow Intake Tubes for our next dyno outing, next week. We will also be trying a few new tricks with the nitrous to get another 50 hp to reach 700 HP at the rear wheels!

Thanks again for your questions,

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[Tom Welch]

Kyle,

Thanks for your remarks, and yes I know that cranking compression is not actual cylinder compression but is related to cam overlap. My comments were based on the post of treynors heads and what he had tried to achieve in relation to compression. I wish that they could have checked to see how much his head surface was milled.

There is alot more to doing heads than meets the eye. Remove a little "meat" from the combustion chamber and that changes compression ratio, add a bigger valve and get some back, raise the seat and loose a little again, mill the head and get a little back........sounds like a laural and hardy joke.

Thanks again, your comments are appreciated,

Tom

 

[jp]

Tom, We do all look forward to next weeks information!
Keep us posted!

So, how about clutch? will you continue to use stock parts?

 

[Tom Welch]

StanL

Thanks for your questions.

My car bone stock made 405 rwhp.(typical for a bone stock Gen 2 viper)

With Catless Belanger headers and Exhaust it averaged 455-457 at about 490+ rwtq.

My car has no smooth tubes or air intake kit, YET. All previous dyno pulls including the ones with the new heads were with STOCK intake box and tubes. We have no computer enhancements on my car either, nor do we offer any such items for sale??

Take care, keep an eye on my posts and website for more dyno pulls with our intake kit and some dragstrip times and video clips as we will attempt both dynoing and racing this week.

Tom