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Discussion in 'RT/10 and GTS Discussions' started by Jeffsss, Jun 15, 2013.
Fixed it for you. I did the R&R and didn't replace my LUK (12K babied miles Viper).
Vipers have a huge clutch in them which is not the most responsive even when new, so it could certaily be a bit lazy with age and miles. A new clutch ought to give it a quicker shifting feel.
well in hindsight yes, maybe I should have. the fact that the car has 20k easy miles I thought it'd be fine. never the less, what's done is done.
well i might have to do this then... I'll wait for more responses. yep.. should have replaced it. oh well.
Just an update. Car seems to be fine. I rowed through some gears and feels good. I just needed some practice.
The clutch doesn't engage till the pedal is a little below the brake pedal. So like 3"~ of play. Which I guess is normal ?? My uncles 370z engages immediately but my buddy's 02 zo6 doesn't engage for a bit further. So I gotta think its ok ?
As long as it is not slipping, don't worry about it. One way you can tell is by putting the car in 5th or 6th and hitting the gas. If the RPMs rise faster than the engine, replacement time.
Took the viper on a dinner date with my wife. while driving about 5 miles of normal driving, I notice the clutch is getting very shallow.. more so then ever before. I get to a stop light and it doesnt go into gear. well ****.
I'm there pumping the clutch (hoping its the master not getting to the slave) and nothing is helping. I turn the car off, try to put it in gear and it doesnt help. I then finally decide to put a little muscle into the shifter. I press the clutch in as hard as I can.. push it into first fairly hard.. it finally goes.
I limp it home.. it shifts.. but it's not happy about it. luckliy i'm only a couple miles from home and tuck it in my garage.
now what could it be? car has 22k on it. clutch slave is replaced, master is replaced..... all fluid levels are good. why is this happening??
My guess would be you still have air in the system. The line from the master to the slave has a high point where it crosses the frame rail from what I recall. Real biotch to bleed. Take it back to the shop and have them pressure or vacuum bleed it (not the pedal pump method). Do a search here for the DIY on it and print for the shop. It'll work out, don't stress too much.
Hope the dinner with the spousal unit was still enjoyable.
So I spoke to my mechanic and he thinks old fluids are on the flywheel and clutch causing problems.
Getting the tranny dropped ordering parts soon.
OK, so, just some suggestions assuming that you will be replacing the clutch and pressure plate assembly. I'd suggest using the OEM type clutch assembly. Lot's of folks have gone with the eBay LUK clutch (supposedly OEM-type). You are having so many issues, I would suggest just going OEM so that there is no question as to compatibility. Also, experts would suggest DO NOT resurface the flywheel. If is is burnt or heat checked it should be replaced, according to the service manual. If it is resurfaced, it doesn't take much material removal to cause new problems with clutch engagement points. Non-OEM type clutches can cause engagement point to be unusual also.
thanks for the suggestion.. and yes. I will most defiantly be going OEM. I would never get any ebay or discount parts for any of my vehicles though.
Just to be clear, the forum posts indicate that the LUK clutch is supposedly the same as the OEM. I can't attest to that either way.
I can attest to it.... A few months back I replaced the slave. While there I replaced the clutch. The clutch that came out of the car is a LUK clutch. It is stamped that way. The replacement clutch I used was a LUK clutch. They were 100% identical down to the stamped names on the clutch. Even the locations of the stamping. My car was a 30K mile car, one owner. I pulled the original clutch. Without doing a materials analysis .... It's the same clutch.
I posted, in some other thread, the part number and brand of the clutch kit I bought. It was the clutch, bearing, pressure plate and alignment tool. You can search for it... There is no reason to pay Chrysler for the part if it's LUK making the clutch. Save the money and it'll pay for part of the install.... For me, it paid for the short throw shifter....
Just an update.. car is going back to the shop for the 3rd time. Poor viper. my mechanic says there is a service bulletin on some of the inners.. we'll see.
How has nobody sugggested the most obvious problem here?
Clutch: Highly unlikely. If it works properly some of the time, it is most likely not clutch related. A defective clutch would be a constant problem in 99% of cases.
Slave: A slave is a very simple hydraulic device. If its not leaking, you have a 99.9% chance it is not your cause.
Master: Likely culprit in something like this, but it has been replaced already.
Which leads us to... BOILING CLUTCH FLUID. The hydraulic line is probably laying too close -or right on- the exhaust, and it is boiling the fluid in the hydraulic line, forcing it back into the master and creating an air pocket when the car has been driven for a while. An already existent air pocket in the line from improper bleeding would make this problem even worse. This would explain why it works every time once the system is bled, and then fails again after it is driven for some time when its hot. You have already said the system works better when "pumped up" for a little while... this is a dead giveaway that something is forcing the fluid back into the master.
The only other HIGHLY unlikely cause is that the cltch itself has a finger that is pushing the slave much further in than normal... but this would be a hell an an oddball scenario.
thank you for the comment. I'll definitely suggest this to my mechanic
I replaced my OEM clutch last year with a flywheel/clutch kit from BadBoyzzGarage, you may want to look into this option if you end up replacing the stock clutch and flywheel. I absolutely LOVE this clutch/flywheel package and it's been nearly 20k miles!
I own a shop over in palm beach and work on a lot of Vipers.
I will lay odds you still have air in the system but never try an force the car in gear you can bend or brake the shift forks
You or your mechanic can call me at 561.307.1521 I will try and help
thank you Wayne, If you were closer I'd bring it to you. I'll try to have my mechanic call tuesday or wednesday if that's okay with you.
Oh dear..... people... Just an FYI, this is common mechanic practice. I'm surprised I didn't see many others saying this. When you replace a slave, you might as well replace the master as well. These parts have high pressure and when you have a new one in there, the old one will pose at the weak link and be out the door as well. The slave and master are extremely affordable online and because of the amout of work it requires to remove the transmission for the slave, you MUST do the master as well, just to eliminate any worries or problems. Check all the lines to make sure they are clear from moving or hot parts and bleed the crap out of the master. you need to bleed bleed bleed..... it takes a while and some patience. I have done a few master / slave combos and never had any issues. It does however take some time to bleed. Just keep bleeding till it feels good. You'll know when it's ready but you may spend 30 mins pumping and opening, pumping and opening... need a partner for this part obviously.
ALWAYS DO MASTER WITH THE SLAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's too cheap not to!!!!!!!!!!
yes, I've learned my lesson. The viper is going back to the shop tomorrow morning. in fact I forwarded him several posts on here.
but now that I had the Slave and now the Master replaced... will bleeding the crap out of it help resolve the issue? I'll be honest.. it was never really firm when I got it back initially.
i guess my question is that if i did the slave then the master on separate occasions, is this going to cause an issue?
No, your slave and master were done around the same time, you'll be alright. But if the car is 10 years old or has 30,000 miles on it, ya know, something big, then replace both at the same time. I wouldn;t replace one then wait a year or two and replace the other.
Sometimes when you replace fluids, you obviousely get air bubbles in the lines, but you can also get tiny bubbles (like spit...) in the fluid and it takes longer to bleed. I learned all this from my Dad... bleeding brakes on many cars and then with him working on my Vipers. I owe him alot of credit from my mechanic skills!!! He told me, sometimes the bubbles can be caused from pumping the pedal too fast or violently. Well, I have no proof of this but simply to avoid it, I always try go slow and pump the clutch pedal 3 times and then on the 3rd time, hold to the floor hard while your buddy opens the bleeder valve on the clutch. Go slowly and take about 3 seconds pumping it to avoid the "spit bubbles".
I think we spent about 30 minutes on the GTS literally pumping /bleeding the clutch before it started getting tight.
So be patient if you are doing a viper clutch! Have PLENTY of clutch fluid to fill the reservoir every 5 mins!!!!
Ok got it to the shop this morning. Gave him all of your guys suggestions.
Hope he can get it right.
I haven't had a good drive in it since may.
Clutch is 100% !!!!!
Did they say what they did?
Bled the crap out of it for a couple days. Installed a new retaining clip for the master push rod
Cool. Good to hear nothing major.
Now my ac isn't working though dammit