Snake Bitten
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Hey Cop Magnet...anyone who takes me seriously...is a homo!
Hey Cop Magnet...anyone who takes me seriously...is a homo!
Why Vipers don't handle well?
- Thread starter ElDiablo Viper
- Start date
Russ Oasis
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
This is a crazy thread. Here's the solution; bring both to a Viper Days Event and see who turns in a fast time. My money is on a Viper any day of the week. The "handling" argument is stupid. A go kart handles better than an Enzo, and that's a fact...so, are we done here?
This is a crazy thread. Here's the solution; bring both to a Viper Days Event and see who turns in a fast time. My money is on a Viper any day of the week. The "handling" argument is stupid. A go kart handles better than an Enzo, and that's a fact...so, are we done here?
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
I remember many years ago hearing that American cars could not handle and only went well in a straight line. Then my uncle returned from the USA and brought back his 1970 Camaro which my dad restored for him.
My first impressions after driving it were - "gee these cars really handle quite well" It cornered flat and was more go-kart like than anything else we'd driven at that time..... mid 70's.
The problem is largely coming from Britain and Europe - the roads they drive on - off the big freeways - bear little resemblance to the roads in the USA. We have the same problem here in NZ. Many of our roads - as in Europe and Britain - once off the freeways - have bumps, dips, the odd pothole, off-camber turns, rough edges at times, sometimes narrow roads, rough coarse chip surface etc.... fat tires do not like these things period.
That is why cars like the STI WRX and EVO beat anything else point to point on that kind of road - they have the suspension to jump a bump at 100mph+ and not hit the deck - they can be flung into a turn hit bumps and keep all four on the road when the Viper, F360, Enzo, Murcielago and anything with big tires will simply bounce off the road, smash its belly into the tarmac, or be forced to slow down. So they say that these narrower tired cars with plenty of ground clearance and great chassis and suspension handle better - and have more feel etc.
But if you go out onto the interstates - or the wonderful smooth surface highways with twisty turns etc, where the big tires can grip, and the big cars can strut their stuff - they are in their own league. The Viper has consistently shown that it can hang with the top supercars in these conditions - so it's a great handling car in its element... which includes the track.
The BMW will be so far behind it will be embarrassed stupid.... until the surface changes, the road narrows, the bumps appear, the odd jump is thrown in etc - then the suspension travel etc of the BMW will take over as the lower, fat tired Viper is forced to slow down or get damaged. Different cars for different roads.
I'd rather drive the Viper and slow down where there are dips and bumps - the M3 will still get creamed by any STI WRX or EVO on the bumpy roads anyway, the M3 will shine in between the Viper's favourite roads and the EVO's...
I remember many years ago hearing that American cars could not handle and only went well in a straight line. Then my uncle returned from the USA and brought back his 1970 Camaro which my dad restored for him.
My first impressions after driving it were - "gee these cars really handle quite well" It cornered flat and was more go-kart like than anything else we'd driven at that time..... mid 70's.
The problem is largely coming from Britain and Europe - the roads they drive on - off the big freeways - bear little resemblance to the roads in the USA. We have the same problem here in NZ. Many of our roads - as in Europe and Britain - once off the freeways - have bumps, dips, the odd pothole, off-camber turns, rough edges at times, sometimes narrow roads, rough coarse chip surface etc.... fat tires do not like these things period.
That is why cars like the STI WRX and EVO beat anything else point to point on that kind of road - they have the suspension to jump a bump at 100mph+ and not hit the deck - they can be flung into a turn hit bumps and keep all four on the road when the Viper, F360, Enzo, Murcielago and anything with big tires will simply bounce off the road, smash its belly into the tarmac, or be forced to slow down. So they say that these narrower tired cars with plenty of ground clearance and great chassis and suspension handle better - and have more feel etc.
But if you go out onto the interstates - or the wonderful smooth surface highways with twisty turns etc, where the big tires can grip, and the big cars can strut their stuff - they are in their own league. The Viper has consistently shown that it can hang with the top supercars in these conditions - so it's a great handling car in its element... which includes the track.
The BMW will be so far behind it will be embarrassed stupid.... until the surface changes, the road narrows, the bumps appear, the odd jump is thrown in etc - then the suspension travel etc of the BMW will take over as the lower, fat tired Viper is forced to slow down or get damaged. Different cars for different roads.
I'd rather drive the Viper and slow down where there are dips and bumps - the M3 will still get creamed by any STI WRX or EVO on the bumpy roads anyway, the M3 will shine in between the Viper's favourite roads and the EVO's...
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Great last couple of posts, an hopefully my last post as well (call me a homo, no problem--insult my car...them's fightin' words). The time around a track is NOT the definition of "handling". The speed on the straights can make up for some handling deficiencies in the corners. This being said, races are usually won in the corners. As the above posts suggest, these cars are two different things altogether...apples and oranges. That's why they don't run in the same class at ALMS, and why comparison is not a valid argument at all. To say one handles better than the other because of a single reference point (skidpag G, overall time on a roadcoarse) debases everything that goes into your being a good driver. There are too many data points that go into our driving gestalt to quantify this way. It's like that saying about ***********...you can't define it but you know it when you see it.
Gerald, I hope that's not too many big words for you. Sorry, leftover habit from the BMW Club.
Great last couple of posts, an hopefully my last post as well (call me a homo, no problem--insult my car...them's fightin' words). The time around a track is NOT the definition of "handling". The speed on the straights can make up for some handling deficiencies in the corners. This being said, races are usually won in the corners. As the above posts suggest, these cars are two different things altogether...apples and oranges. That's why they don't run in the same class at ALMS, and why comparison is not a valid argument at all. To say one handles better than the other because of a single reference point (skidpag G, overall time on a roadcoarse) debases everything that goes into your being a good driver. There are too many data points that go into our driving gestalt to quantify this way. It's like that saying about ***********...you can't define it but you know it when you see it.
Gerald, I hope that's not too many big words for you. Sorry, leftover habit from the BMW Club.
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Sorry, I meant BMW HOMO Club
Sorry, I meant BMW HOMO Club
joe117
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Well cop magnet, what has your M3 got to do with most M3s?
You have spent money and time making a race car out of it. I have no doubt that after enough of that, you may be able to do somthing with stock Vipers on a road course, but again, what has that got to do with M3s?
You came on here telling people that your M3 will run with Vipers on a road course. People came back with the load of crap that your claim deserved. Now you say you have modded the car for power and handling.
Anyone who has done any real racing knows how foolish almost any street car can be made to look when it's put up against a race car. Try racing a Viper that has been set up to race.
Oh by the way, I think the BMWs that are real competition for a Viper probably cost more to buy, own and operate than a Viper. And if you drove through the average city with one of them, you wouldn't get a second look from anyone that didn't own a BMW.
Well cop magnet, what has your M3 got to do with most M3s?
You have spent money and time making a race car out of it. I have no doubt that after enough of that, you may be able to do somthing with stock Vipers on a road course, but again, what has that got to do with M3s?
You came on here telling people that your M3 will run with Vipers on a road course. People came back with the load of crap that your claim deserved. Now you say you have modded the car for power and handling.
Anyone who has done any real racing knows how foolish almost any street car can be made to look when it's put up against a race car. Try racing a Viper that has been set up to race.
Oh by the way, I think the BMWs that are real competition for a Viper probably cost more to buy, own and operate than a Viper. And if you drove through the average city with one of them, you wouldn't get a second look from anyone that didn't own a BMW.
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
I traded in my 99 M3 for my GTS (too many *** guys hitting on me in the M3)and Cop Magnet you need to put down the crack pipe and b-a-c-k a-w-a-y. The M3 is no contest for the Viper, either in a straightline or handling. Yes the M3 is much more forgiving than the Viper (and one might argue that this is "good" handling) but in terms of handling limits, give me a break. Example? Time at the Nurburgring for a stock E46 M3 8:22. Stock Viper GTS, 8:10. Your modified M3 to stock comparison has about as much relevance as the Latin I took in high school....
I traded in my 99 M3 for my GTS (too many *** guys hitting on me in the M3)and Cop Magnet you need to put down the crack pipe and b-a-c-k a-w-a-y. The M3 is no contest for the Viper, either in a straightline or handling. Yes the M3 is much more forgiving than the Viper (and one might argue that this is "good" handling) but in terms of handling limits, give me a break. Example? Time at the Nurburgring for a stock E46 M3 8:22. Stock Viper GTS, 8:10. Your modified M3 to stock comparison has about as much relevance as the Latin I took in high school....
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Crack pipe? This is what I said My M3 outhandles the Viper any day of the week. Having run with Vipers at the track, there's no contest on the straights, but also no contest in the corners. I never claimed my M3 wasn't modded. 355HP in my post also, remember? Don't you guys modify your Vipers, am I not allowed to do the same? And I did not "come in here trash talking"; I did not start this thread. The M3 deserves some respect, it is not the equal of the Viper. There's a reason I own one, just like you. So, ban away.
Crack pipe? This is what I said My M3 outhandles the Viper any day of the week. Having run with Vipers at the track, there's no contest on the straights, but also no contest in the corners. I never claimed my M3 wasn't modded. 355HP in my post also, remember? Don't you guys modify your Vipers, am I not allowed to do the same? And I did not "come in here trash talking"; I did not start this thread. The M3 deserves some respect, it is not the equal of the Viper. There's a reason I own one, just like you. So, ban away.
ElDiablo Viper
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
I say bring that MODed M3 to Viper and make sure to install big rearview mirrors because you will need them.
My best friend owns new M3 and there is no way in h e l l that he could keep up with my Viper on the racetrack. I even took him when I had a Corvette. I also raced supercharged 318ti and he had no chance to my Vette. Viper on the track is so much better. The first time I roadraced the Viper on the same track I was lapping 4 sec faster than a Corvette. After I got a hang of it I was 7 sec faster.
The only time you can take the Viper would be in AutoX where large HP is a handicap.
I say bring that MODed M3 to Viper and make sure to install big rearview mirrors because you will need them.
My best friend owns new M3 and there is no way in h e l l that he could keep up with my Viper on the racetrack. I even took him when I had a Corvette. I also raced supercharged 318ti and he had no chance to my Vette. Viper on the track is so much better. The first time I roadraced the Viper on the same track I was lapping 4 sec faster than a Corvette. After I got a hang of it I was 7 sec faster.
The only time you can take the Viper would be in AutoX where large HP is a handicap.
Snake Bitten
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Hey Cop Magnet...bring your beemer to the next Illinois event at GLD...it's a track...technically...there is a left hander down at the end!
And bring the GTS too!
Hey Cop Magnet...bring your beemer to the next Illinois event at GLD...it's a track...technically...there is a left hander down at the end!
And bring the GTS too!
MHQC
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Cop Magnet, I think your Viper bashing was based on the homo comment, that's it, that's all. But it sounds ridiculous when you say that the M3 out handles the Viper. My friend who just bought an M3 cannot follow me in the corners...period. He is already thinking of selling it.
Your arguements are based on "sure the Viper is quicker in the straights etc...but in the corners the M3 etc..."
I ask you this. If we had say a rev limiter in the Viper that would allow to match but not exceed the speeds of the M3, which car would handle better?
Exactly, thanks for the setup.
Sheeesh, you sound like my buddy who was going to show me how to drive in the corners with his M3. eeeeeeyaa.
Cop Magnet, I think your Viper bashing was based on the homo comment, that's it, that's all. But it sounds ridiculous when you say that the M3 out handles the Viper. My friend who just bought an M3 cannot follow me in the corners...period. He is already thinking of selling it.
Your arguements are based on "sure the Viper is quicker in the straights etc...but in the corners the M3 etc..."
I ask you this. If we had say a rev limiter in the Viper that would allow to match but not exceed the speeds of the M3, which car would handle better?
Exactly, thanks for the setup.
Sheeesh, you sound like my buddy who was going to show me how to drive in the corners with his M3. eeeeeeyaa.
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Hey El Diablo, pick a hot day and bring your X5 to the track with you when you meet Cop Magnet. The heat soak is so bad on the supercharged M3s that it'll probably be slower down the straights than your x5 after a few laps, which should be good for a few laughs. Cop Magnet you shoulda gone with the AA turbo bro.
Hey El Diablo, pick a hot day and bring your X5 to the track with you when you meet Cop Magnet. The heat soak is so bad on the supercharged M3s that it'll probably be slower down the straights than your x5 after a few laps, which should be good for a few laughs. Cop Magnet you shoulda gone with the AA turbo bro.
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Ultimately from what I've gleaned from this post.. (besides that you may be *** with a small package..which you have not denied.. but that isn't my concern) is that you are a lousy driver who cannot handle a Viper properly. Ultimately we have plenty of people who have smacked around stock and modded M3's.. It's not in the competition, never will be in the competition against a Viper. I'm sorry if you've missed the 20 other posts trying to get it into your skull that your lil m3 is not for the likes of the Viper (and no.. I am not referring to just the straight-aways). Learn to drive, then come back and amend your ways. Your just digging yourself in deeper with every post. Perhaps you should go to an M3 board where the crowd will be more sympathetic to your plight.
Ultimately from what I've gleaned from this post.. (besides that you may be *** with a small package..which you have not denied.. but that isn't my concern) is that you are a lousy driver who cannot handle a Viper properly. Ultimately we have plenty of people who have smacked around stock and modded M3's.. It's not in the competition, never will be in the competition against a Viper. I'm sorry if you've missed the 20 other posts trying to get it into your skull that your lil m3 is not for the likes of the Viper (and no.. I am not referring to just the straight-aways). Learn to drive, then come back and amend your ways. Your just digging yourself in deeper with every post. Perhaps you should go to an M3 board where the crowd will be more sympathetic to your plight.
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Handling = lap times? Partly. Do you mean Cornering = Handling? Are BRAKES what you mean by "handling?" A skid pad G# is NOT handling, is it?
I agree w/ Steven and Jim, and Cop, and have shared PIR with Steven and Jim several times. But I also instruct for the BMW club, and have wrung some amazing performance out of M3 and M5 units there. No STOCK M-3 can corner (not 'handle') BETTER than a stock Viper can, in most corners, assuming advanced drivers in each.
But make a few inexpensive brake and spring and sway-bar mods to the M-3, and he is "in our mirrors" on most corners. Make the same mods to a Viper, and B'ByeBeemer.....
A good friend here who has owned 4 Vipers and a few Ferrari, BMWs, and a Radical, just spent under $500 on a 4-wheel-track-alighnment and corner-weighting at a pro shop here. 2001 GTS. He is shouting his AMAZEMENT at how the Viper can HANDLE, once the flat-footed OE road alignent is abandoned. CAAP aligns these cars for best tire mileage, and novice-safer-understeer. Once you can DRIVE, even as an intermediate, you will LOVE how easy it is to produce genuine Kick-Asss 'Handling' of your Viper........."The Potential is There"
Handling = lap times? Partly. Do you mean Cornering = Handling? Are BRAKES what you mean by "handling?" A skid pad G# is NOT handling, is it?
I agree w/ Steven and Jim, and Cop, and have shared PIR with Steven and Jim several times. But I also instruct for the BMW club, and have wrung some amazing performance out of M3 and M5 units there. No STOCK M-3 can corner (not 'handle') BETTER than a stock Viper can, in most corners, assuming advanced drivers in each.
But make a few inexpensive brake and spring and sway-bar mods to the M-3, and he is "in our mirrors" on most corners. Make the same mods to a Viper, and B'ByeBeemer.....
A good friend here who has owned 4 Vipers and a few Ferrari, BMWs, and a Radical, just spent under $500 on a 4-wheel-track-alighnment and corner-weighting at a pro shop here. 2001 GTS. He is shouting his AMAZEMENT at how the Viper can HANDLE, once the flat-footed OE road alignent is abandoned. CAAP aligns these cars for best tire mileage, and novice-safer-understeer. Once you can DRIVE, even as an intermediate, you will LOVE how easy it is to produce genuine Kick-Asss 'Handling' of your Viper........."The Potential is There"
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Instructors can recognize POTENTIAL thru the seat of their pants.
They FEEL the OE understeer, and the OE body roll.
They FEEL the braking de-cel on OE pads, with no cooling, no slots.
They FEEL the G-forces and Grip that treaded OEM tires develop.
They go "WOW! This Viper is SO good STOCK, Imagine if this student did ____."
{They also were being kind: Remember the teacher who said "Jimmy, you are not working at your potential")
FIRST MAKE IT STOP BETTER.
THEN MAKE IT TURN BETTER.
THEN YOU CAN ADD HP...........
Instructors can recognize POTENTIAL thru the seat of their pants.
They FEEL the OE understeer, and the OE body roll.
They FEEL the braking de-cel on OE pads, with no cooling, no slots.
They FEEL the G-forces and Grip that treaded OEM tires develop.
They go "WOW! This Viper is SO good STOCK, Imagine if this student did ____."
{They also were being kind: Remember the teacher who said "Jimmy, you are not working at your potential")
FIRST MAKE IT STOP BETTER.
THEN MAKE IT TURN BETTER.
THEN YOU CAN ADD HP...........
SapphireGTS
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
its all in the driver.
its all in the driver.
V10 MOJO
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
ya know, last friday i met a guy at the track (hes a viper owner; silver GTS) and he races a funny car (8 sec car) molded after a viper. he was amazed at the fact i could do 11's. he says hes never gotten his out of thirteens??? i guess some people just dont have the knack for a viper even though they may love them cause ive driven lambos, to ferraris, to porsches and all domestics; ive owned most all of them, and in my simple taste the viper is best bar none. and as for handling; gimme a break, it handles damnn good as long as the driver can handle it
ya know, last friday i met a guy at the track (hes a viper owner; silver GTS) and he races a funny car (8 sec car) molded after a viper. he was amazed at the fact i could do 11's. he says hes never gotten his out of thirteens??? i guess some people just dont have the knack for a viper even though they may love them cause ive driven lambos, to ferraris, to porsches and all domestics; ive owned most all of them, and in my simple taste the viper is best bar none. and as for handling; gimme a break, it handles damnn good as long as the driver can handle it
ElDiablo Viper
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
I belive that my X5 can outhandle 330i LOL I know for sure that it is faster! Nothing like V8 and 4.6l
I belive that my X5 can outhandle 330i LOL I know for sure that it is faster! Nothing like V8 and 4.6l
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Drove a friends M3 Conv. and was really disappointed in the handling. Felt very vette-like but lacked ANY ability to pick up chicks. (in vettes at least you can score the faghags...)
Drove a friends M3 Conv. and was really disappointed in the handling. Felt very vette-like but lacked ANY ability to pick up chicks. (in vettes at least you can score the faghags...)
viper spray
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
I have a sprint kart in the garage , but I can't drive it on the street, my Viper with Kumhos feels kinda like a Monster Kart for the street!! (BMW = Bite My ******!!)
I have a sprint kart in the garage , but I can't drive it on the street, my Viper with Kumhos feels kinda like a Monster Kart for the street!! (BMW = Bite My ******!!)
Big Medicine
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Cop Magnet,
They understand. They're just trying to get you to keep chumming to heighten the feeding frenzy. Don't let it get to you.
Cop Magnet,
They understand. They're just trying to get you to keep chumming to heighten the feeding frenzy. Don't let it get to you.
Lee00blacksilverGTS
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
OOOKaaaayyy, If he's still here, how about this....I put 20,000 miles on a 2001 M5, I have the 2005 V10 M5 on order, now unless Mr.Magnet (great color choice by the way on the Viper) wants to argue that the M3 handles better than an M5 I think this argument should be put to bed. Neither the M3 nor the M5 will handle better. Both the M3 and the M5 are famous for their understeer, this makes them feel much better at the limit than the Viper which is a VERY neutral car until it reaches VERY sudden oversteer, which in the hands of the uninitiated fells like bad handling. I bought the M5 and the Viper witin 2 months of each other, I also have some seat time in the M3. Both the 3 and the 5 cars make the inexperienced high speed driver feel more comfortable, the Viper is known for sudden oversteer, that does not mean it does not handle in comparison to other more plebian machines designed to make the AVERAGE driver more comfortable.
OOOKaaaayyy, If he's still here, how about this....I put 20,000 miles on a 2001 M5, I have the 2005 V10 M5 on order, now unless Mr.Magnet (great color choice by the way on the Viper) wants to argue that the M3 handles better than an M5 I think this argument should be put to bed. Neither the M3 nor the M5 will handle better. Both the M3 and the M5 are famous for their understeer, this makes them feel much better at the limit than the Viper which is a VERY neutral car until it reaches VERY sudden oversteer, which in the hands of the uninitiated fells like bad handling. I bought the M5 and the Viper witin 2 months of each other, I also have some seat time in the M3. Both the 3 and the 5 cars make the inexperienced high speed driver feel more comfortable, the Viper is known for sudden oversteer, that does not mean it does not handle in comparison to other more plebian machines designed to make the AVERAGE driver more comfortable.
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
El Diablo,
I put a NX 100 shot on a 4.6 X5 last year. When I hit it from a dead stop it would chirp the front tires and then you could feel the awd claw for traction. It was pretty fast even off the juice. Cool SUV.
El Diablo,
I put a NX 100 shot on a 4.6 X5 last year. When I hit it from a dead stop it would chirp the front tires and then you could feel the awd claw for traction. It was pretty fast even off the juice. Cool SUV.
Nexus-6
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Oversteer is the foundation on which I've built my entire collection.
Oversteer is my friend...
Oversteer is the foundation on which I've built my entire collection.
Oversteer is my friend...
treynor
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
> I seem to be the only one here who has both in his
> garage right now, and the only one to have driven both
> of these specific cars.
Not any more. I had a '98 Dinan S3-packaged E36 M3 for a couple years (355 HP, stage III Dinan suspension, and I drove it around on Hoosier slicks for kicks), and currently have a '01 RT/10 and a '03 SRT/10. I've done 1000s of roadcourse miles over the past decade, and while I don't consider myself an expert, I'm a pretty good novice
At any rate, I believe the main points in this thread have already been made. The M3 with the Dinan package handled very very nicely, and was extremely forgiving. Even on comp tires, I could hang the rear end out entering the corner, breath into the gas to settle the chassis, dial a touch of opposite lock, and never need to put down my BMW coffee mug in the process. However, it was still first and foremost a street car -- when you turned the wheel, you felt the suspension shift and settle, you felt the tires bite, and THEN it began to rotate and generate G forces. I've also driven the E46 M3, and it handles decently but seems to push quite early -- and it's a heavy pig to boot
The stock SRT/10 on the other hand is as close to a full-on racecar as anything I've driven on the street - you turn the wheel, and it starts to pivot RIGHT NOW. Enter a corner with trailing throttle and the rear end steps out RIGHT NOW. It's definitely more of an expert's car, even with the stock understeer-prone suspension settings, and I have to pay considerably more attention when driving it quickly. However, it rewards that attention with much quicker responses and much higher cornering limits. On the roadcourse, the SRT would walk away from an M3 in the corners, to say nothing of under braking or acceleration.
My experiences with the RT/10 (and autocrossing an ACR) are that it's similar to the SRT, but with a less-controlled chassis and less forgiving handling at the limit. However, on goodyear racing slicks my RT/10 was unreal -- it'd pull G's that I've only felt in open-wheel racecars. 'Course, I also spun it when I got a little too comfortable with the handling and missed an apex... but I've done that in racecars too.
So net net, my $.02 from personal experience
* Stock M3 == nice-handling street car.
* Modified M3 == very nice-handling street car.
* Stock Viper == decent-handling race car with a license plate.
> I seem to be the only one here who has both in his
> garage right now, and the only one to have driven both
> of these specific cars.
Not any more. I had a '98 Dinan S3-packaged E36 M3 for a couple years (355 HP, stage III Dinan suspension, and I drove it around on Hoosier slicks for kicks), and currently have a '01 RT/10 and a '03 SRT/10. I've done 1000s of roadcourse miles over the past decade, and while I don't consider myself an expert, I'm a pretty good novice
At any rate, I believe the main points in this thread have already been made. The M3 with the Dinan package handled very very nicely, and was extremely forgiving. Even on comp tires, I could hang the rear end out entering the corner, breath into the gas to settle the chassis, dial a touch of opposite lock, and never need to put down my BMW coffee mug in the process. However, it was still first and foremost a street car -- when you turned the wheel, you felt the suspension shift and settle, you felt the tires bite, and THEN it began to rotate and generate G forces. I've also driven the E46 M3, and it handles decently but seems to push quite early -- and it's a heavy pig to boot
The stock SRT/10 on the other hand is as close to a full-on racecar as anything I've driven on the street - you turn the wheel, and it starts to pivot RIGHT NOW. Enter a corner with trailing throttle and the rear end steps out RIGHT NOW. It's definitely more of an expert's car, even with the stock understeer-prone suspension settings, and I have to pay considerably more attention when driving it quickly. However, it rewards that attention with much quicker responses and much higher cornering limits. On the roadcourse, the SRT would walk away from an M3 in the corners, to say nothing of under braking or acceleration.
My experiences with the RT/10 (and autocrossing an ACR) are that it's similar to the SRT, but with a less-controlled chassis and less forgiving handling at the limit. However, on goodyear racing slicks my RT/10 was unreal -- it'd pull G's that I've only felt in open-wheel racecars. 'Course, I also spun it when I got a little too comfortable with the handling and missed an apex... but I've done that in racecars too.
So net net, my $.02 from personal experience
* Stock M3 == nice-handling street car.
* Modified M3 == very nice-handling street car.
* Stock Viper == decent-handling race car with a license plate.
SoCal Craig
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
I think people get the impression that the Viper doesn't handle well becasue they've never actually "driven" one. I was at first intimidated driving it ******* the street because the limits are so high. After attending a few Viper Days events and a few other track events I've become quite comfortable with the car, and have found it to be a fantastic "handling" car. I've never driven an M3, but I've never met one that I couldn't pass on the track... in any of my cars
I think people get the impression that the Viper doesn't handle well becasue they've never actually "driven" one. I was at first intimidated driving it ******* the street because the limits are so high. After attending a few Viper Days events and a few other track events I've become quite comfortable with the car, and have found it to be a fantastic "handling" car. I've never driven an M3, but I've never met one that I couldn't pass on the track... in any of my cars
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Yeah, I am still here. This is the kind of "camaraderie" I joined the club for . Interesting, isn't it, that I respond to remarks about being a socially inept *** that were made even before I signed on. Yeah, that gets me hot under the collar, and I wouldn't have responded the way I did without the perceived provocation. I probably did overstep my statements because of this--human nature I say, backpedaling you may say. Also interesting that the same kind of exaggerated response is made by 40 or so other posts...because of my comments which are mostly reasonable (I'll give you my first post as inappropriate) I am not only a homo and a nerd, but I carry a short personal shifter, I am a lousy driver, and I should be banned from the forum. I admit here and now that I overstepped my bounds based on emotion, but I challenge any of the posters above to deny the same. Now that's as close to an apology as is coming. I am a new Viper owner, but I have a lot to offer the club, I'll be meeting you all at tracks here and there, so let's move on.
Yeah, I am still here. This is the kind of "camaraderie" I joined the club for
. Interesting, isn't it, that I respond to remarks about being a socially inept *** that were made even before I signed on. Yeah, that gets me hot under the collar, and I wouldn't have responded the way I did without the perceived provocation. I probably did overstep my statements because of this--human nature I say, backpedaling you may say. Also interesting that the same kind of exaggerated response is made by 40 or so other posts...because of my comments which are mostly reasonable (I'll give you my first post as inappropriate) I am not only a homo and a nerd, but I carry a short personal shifter, I am a lousy driver, and I should be banned from the forum. I admit here and now that I overstepped my bounds based on emotion, but I challenge any of the posters above to deny the same. Now that's as close to an apology as is coming. I am a new Viper owner, but I have a lot to offer the club, I'll be meeting you all at tracks here and there, so let's move on.joe117
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Do you pass the Vipers in the corners or under braking?
Do you pass the Vipers in the corners or under braking?
Sonny 00 GTS ACR
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
Welcome to the board. Come to a Viperdays event - we'll make a believer out of you!
Aug 22, 23 & 24 - Brainerd International Raceway, north of Minneapolis.
Sept 19, 20 & 21 - Putnam Park, just west of Indy. Awesome track - very safe.
Photo of VRL race at Mid Ohio by Trevor Walker.
Welcome to the board. Come to a Viperdays event - we'll make a believer out of you!
Aug 22, 23 & 24 - Brainerd International Raceway, north of Minneapolis.
Sept 19, 20 & 21 - Putnam Park, just west of Indy. Awesome track - very safe.
Photo of VRL race at Mid Ohio by Trevor Walker.
viper spray
Enthusiast
Re: Why Vipers don\'t handle well?
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