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ACR in Motor Trend

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by Mopar488, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. TrackAire

    TrackAire Viper Owner

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    Interesting theory....I competed at Ford GT standing mile race where there were mulitple GTs, Lambo, Vettes and a couple of other exotics. During tech, the car that had the largest crowd of other owners around it was my Viper, and with many favorable comments.

    At an open track event in November, again my car was the most photo'd car in the pits and this was against a brand new Lambo spyder, Ferraris, Ford GTs, etc. My car is lowered and is a no stripe car, so maybe it looks different than what most poeple see in Vipers.

    Athough some in Chrysler upper managment compare the Gen 5 to "Halle Berry on the beach", I compare my Gen 4 to "Coco Austin"......

    And I might add, my body gaps appear to be just as tight as Coco's :smirk:

    George
     
  2. Coloviper

    Coloviper Viper Owner

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    I Been There;

    There was a GEN II ACR with the big wing.....it was the 1998 (limited to 100) GT2. That car still sells well because of what it is and the limited factor, however the rear wing did not have the effect on the car's desireability as the GEN IV ACR wing does. Personally, I am not a fan of the big wings on the back as they make the cars look like shopping carts. I may change my mind this spring if there are three new GTS-R Vipers on the podium at Le Mans.

    I hope you all understand that Motor Trend has zero credibility and have probably taken all facts for this latest article from the very fears portrayed on this website. They have you like a fish on a hook. Personally if the pages were not so smooth in that magazine, I would rip a few off and go to the restroom to use them for all they are really worth.
     
  3. rw99

    rw99 Enthusiast

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    While I'm hoping for a more powerful ACR in Gen V, there may be regulatory constraints that make factory alteration of the powerplant and exhaust prohibitive. More likely we'd see something like the Mopar PCM (for off-road use! :D ) so that guys could take advantage of re-worked headers/midpipes.

    Adding downforce similar to what was brought to the Gen IV ACR would also entail quite a bit of work on the new suspension system; it's no longer a simple matter of selecting different shocks and springs. But that fine tuning could make it even better, just think about that!

    I could easily see checkbox availability for carbon ceramic brakes. Insert cha-ching here.


    Rich
     
  4. GTS Bruce

    GTS Bruce Enthusiast

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    People with the money now commanded by a Viper expect more room,comfort a better ride, less harshness and vibration. The chasis design is from the 80's although updated. It needs a completely different frame and layout. Narrow side sills and narrow tunnel as in rear exhaust running through the tunnel and a transaxle. Approx same size car as a front engine Ferrari,Aston Martin,Corvette,p car with a lot more passenger room. Easier to get in and out of. There is no comparison except in power and if power is all you are looking for get a rustang gt 500. GTS Bruce. Yes now I own an F car. Don't get me wrong I loved my V car but for the money and all the comparisons to cars of a more modern design I had to move on.
     
  5. 05Commemorative

    05Commemorative Viper Owner

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    Yet, another uninformed post. Please look at the sales #'s for the gen3's. They had the highest marks other than one gen2 year. Gen4 virtually same design, but sold very low #'s for many reasons, but boring design was not one of them. Please, look up your #'s.
     
  6. chorps

    chorps Enthusiast

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    I'm pretty sure the ACR will not have significantly more power because of certification. Making 200-300 engines perform that much differently will cost a lot of money, this on an engine that isn't used anywhere except on a platform that only sees 2000 odd units a year. If it does happen, how much will the extra cost add to the ACR?

    I'd rather all Vipers get a power bump and then the ACR prices won't be so sky high :D

    The only way I could see a big difference in regular Viper engine output and the ACR would be if they went with forced induction.

    The shovel wing Gen IV ACR was something that was very polarizing to the community and to designers and engineers. I think Dodge knew at the time that no other manufacturer was going to be that crazy save Porsche with the GT2/GT3, so using the wing was a huge advantage for a road going car. I think a lot of people now equate it with the rock star status extrovert nature of the Viper, especially in the awesome SSG and Violet colours.

    To not make a wildchild Gen V ACR would be kind of missing the point in why the Viper exists in the first place, even if the Gen V did knock off some rough edges.

    This is how I see it though :D

    I have no idea why people give me such funny looks.

    Gen IV ACR:
    [​IMG]

    Gen V ACR:
    [​IMG]
     
  7. I Bin Therbefor

    I Bin Therbefor Enthusiast

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    Thanks to you and all that reminded me about the Big Wing GT2. I'd blame my memory on old age but the truth is I just plain forgot about that model. having looked it, the GT2, up, I hold it as a case in point, it will attract attention when parked in public even when parked next to a non wing Viper of the same era because the public associates big wings with racers. Having grown up in the era of Chaparrals, I tend to do so myself.
    As for Motor Trend, I don't even like to mention the magazine for fear that even bad comments might be good publicity for it. :2tu:
     
  8. Tenney

    Tenney Enthusiast

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    Though folks pay a premium for the harsher, more focused take on the 360, 430, 599 and forthcoming 458.
     
  9. bigmack339

    bigmack339 Enthusiast

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    The Corvette was built to compete with Porsche.
    The Viper was built to combat boredom? Right?
     
  10. Viper Grenade

    Viper Grenade Enthusiast

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    If the Gen 5 ACR does not have C7ZR1 beating performance it's lights out for SRT Viper, Ralph will be remembered as the one who made the Viper soft and fluffy then fed it to a corvette on a silver platter.
     
  11. Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

    Bill Pemberton Woodhouse VCA Member - West VCA Member

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    Just a quick thought .....

    2010 ACR beat a 2012 ZR1 at Nurburgring and set the fastest production car record around said legendary track. Let's have a little bit of faith in SRT, Ralph, the engineers, etc. that the next ACR will be super wicked. Especially since I seriously doubt we will even see the vehicle prior to 2015.

    If we are true afficianados of the Snake we need to view historical imperatives instead of constantly going down the negative road when nothing is even out - just my humble opinion.
     
  12. chorps

    chorps Enthusiast

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    Why? GM's not releasing a C7 ZR1 this year. The Gen V won't have any competition for a little while yet except from the C6 ZR1 and Gen IV ACR performance wise, and both aren't being manufactured any longer. I'm pretty sure by the time the new C7 performance variants come out the Vipers will be competitive.
     
  13. kdaviper

    kdaviper Enthusiast

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    Just imagine, more agressive bodywork, 1500 lbs of downforce, R-compound tires, a more adjustable suspension, likely less weight, hopefully brake duct hoses...
     
  14. v10enomous

    v10enomous Viper Owner

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    Looks awesome but they should have done a center band car...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Viper Grenade

    Viper Grenade Enthusiast

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    Your kidding right? But lets play that game for fun.

    Being that the fact the Gen 5 already had its clocked cleaned (badly I may add) by the C6ZR1 add to that the other fact that the new base C7 is already lighter, better geared, more powerful, better braking and better interior than the C6 car it replaces what on earth makes you think GM isn't moving in for a kill shot with the next ZR1?

    The Gen5 came out showing some aggressiveness but no teeth and no venomous bite. When the Viper came out in 1992 it the slaughtered the vette. There was never a Q as to what was the bigger monster with a big nasty venomous bite. Sadly that is not the case with the Gen5. It's soft and fluffy and slower than the out going vette.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  16. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    I love how people want to compare 1992 with 2013. The landscape of supercars has dramatically changed - to pretend it hasn't is pure insanity. We are in an amazing era of performance vehicles.

    The ZR1 also cleaned the clock of the Gen IV ACR at Laguna - same "generation" models, but I don't hear many talking about that. (To which, the Gen V was .5 seconds off the Gen IV ACR)

    And it isn't slower, it out performed on many metrics, but lets not let facts cloud opinions.
     
  17. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    Well that article has two interesting tidbits I could gather from the pic:

    1. Michelin wont sell SRT any MPSC so we can forget about the G5 Viper taking out a C6 ZR1 anytime soon. And they speculate that Chevy had something to do with that.

    2. They can easily eclipse the F12 731hp rating NA with the Vipers V10 but Fiat wont allow it. This rumor, coming from "sources" according to the article, about Fiat not letting SRT make a faster than Ferrari Viper just isn't going away. Its been around since almost the inception and it still rearing its ugly head. Makes me think its true.

    The drama with this car is really getting tired.
     
  18. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    The Gen 5 power is where its at for the same exact reason that other state of the art features were excluded in the car =SEVERE LACK OF RESEARCH and DEVELOPMENT MONEY .To get more power out of the motor (and still have it pass reliability and emissions )would have cost dollars that SRT ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY DID NOT HAVE(LOL you just dont go sticking a blower or bigger cam in the motor as driveabilty reliability and emissions become issues) Multi valve drivetrain ,supercharging ect cost a fortune to develop Vipers are basically single series platforms- Dodge cant assimulate the dollars over the line like Chevy does with the Vette )Inaccordinance with the above regarding the ACR wheres the money coming from to develop such power in a 100-200 unit senerio .All the all the federal recertification is MINOR in comparision to the Rand D needed to develop a 750 hp powerplant
     
  19. kdaviper

    kdaviper Enthusiast

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    This 'rumor' stems entirely from a tongue-in-cheek comment given by Ralph during the reveal... The Viper is already faster than any Ferrari, with fewer horsepower to boot..
     
  20. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    I still am unsure if I buy the Ferrari rumor.

    No one buying an F12 gives two ****s over how much a Viper will make. No one buying a 458 cares. No one buying a McLaren cares. You buy a Ferrari because it is a Ferrari.

    Could it be, yes. But who knows. SRT had a small budget and that is that. I am sure if the Viper does well, you'll see some outstanding updates.
     
  21. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    PS given the budget they were working with 650 hp on a single cam 2 valve per cyl motor SRT did a nice job .Yes Ferrari gets a ton more power per cu NA than we do BUT the dollars needed in producing 4 plus valve per cyl 8000 rpm valvetrains is threw the roof. Guys remember everything produced MUST pass EMISSIONS ,DRIVEABILITY and DURABILITY TESTS on warrantyied engines built to last 250 k miles
     
  22. 1BADGTS

    1BADGTS Enthusiast

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    VERY TRUE,must Ferarri owners i know could care less about the power out ect of a Viper they buy Ferraris for the pedigree.In 2009 i let one of the officers of the Ferrari club of NJ take my Gen 4 for a ride,his responce was thats the fastest piece of plastic i ever drove .The Ferrari guys could care less about the RING RECORD ect to them a Viper is nothing but a DODGE .
     
  23. I Bin Therbefor

    I Bin Therbefor Enthusiast

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    IMHO, applying DI would serve to handle the increased HP issue. That should make 700 hp within easy reach. I know that Team Viper said something about the difficulty of applying DI to a 2 valve OHV engine, but GM has done it to the entire new small block line, so the problem can be handled. :2tu:
     
  24. chorps

    chorps Enthusiast

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    The Gen III Coupe was soundly beaten by the C6 Z06 until the Gen IV ACR came out too. Were all the Viper loyalists banging down CARP's doors then? Of course the next ZR1 is going to be a capable machine but it *will not* be out this year. No idea about 2014 calendar year, but I doubt that too...I'm thinking it will show up +/- 6 months of the 2015 Gen V refresh. The 2015 ACR better be a good one or GM will clean up then.

    The Gen V Viper program is getting resurrected from the dead, Conner was closed up (for what they thought was forever) and getting everything up to speed isn't a matter of flipping a big switch. They are running now and back in the hunt but not in the lead. Everyone is excited and hungry. I don't think anyone is hanging their heads low in shame and I don't think anyone at SRT should be.

    It hasn't been a slaughter for a few years now, both the Gen IV ACR, Gen V and C6 Z06, ZR1 are very close in performance. The Gen V hasn't even been fully released yet so we'll see how well it does once it is in production, and then SRT will have a chance to move forward from there.

    The basic concept of a "monster with a big nasty venomous bite" got everyone's attention but the Viper has had a problem selling more than 2000 units a year. In order for SRT to sell more cars, enough for it to be sustainable and profitable, the Viper is going to have to get "soft and fluffy" by having amenities that its contemporaries have. From that point forward we can have performance oriented versions, just like the 911 has S, turbo, turbo S, GT2 and GT3 variants (although the 911's production numbers are way higher).

    Personally I like the original design brief that the Viper should scare women and children, but only a small amount of crazy people will buy that car, I think that idea has been proven to work only on a limited numbers basis.
     
  25. Alabaster Mamba

    Alabaster Mamba Enthusiast

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    What I really don't understand is why everyone is getting their panties in a wad. The Gen V did a great job considering it isn't the "Big Dog" Viper so to speak. The apples to apples comparison would be the Gen V ACR to the C7 ZR1. Performance numbers for the C7 aren't even out yet and that is what the Base Gen 5 should be compared to. Now on the other hand, the GTS can be compared to the C6 Z06. They are both the track cars of their their genre so to speak.

    Now, what we have here is a failure to communicate. Oops, sorry, started quoting Cool Hand Luke lines. lol But I digress, what is kind of puzzling though is that after the first round of tests involving the ZR1 and the Gen V, we heard over and over how the Gen V would perform better with one of SRT's (Dodge's) drivers. The adrenaline and pulse pounding excitement is waning because we (SRT) hasn't responded with their call about Randy P. not being able to wring out the full potential of the Gen V. Someone needs to step up to the plate and put up or basically you know the rest. It doesn't look good if smack talk was said but then nothing done to back it up.
     
  26. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    An ACR vs ZR1 is NOT apples to apples. The ACR is a streetlegal racer while the ZR1 is a GT car with track capability. They are not in the same category. The G5 GTS vs ZR1 is apples to apples as both are in the same category. If SRT has to wait for a racer in the ACR to beat a GT car(ZR1) around a track because their GT car(GTS) can't handle it then that's utterly pathetic IMHO. And judging from how Ralph and SRT responded to the beatdown the G5 GTS got at the hands of the old ZR1 I think it's safe to say they feel the way I do too hence they are doing something about that.

    Also Chorps the Gen IV Viper coupe beat the C6 Z06 both around the track and in a straight line. They didnt need the ACR to beat the Z06.Im not sure where you got that from. The ACR just whooped the Z06 even more when it came out.
     
  27. swexlin

    swexlin Viper Owner

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    1Bad, I know the Ferrari guys (and P-car guys) at my weekly C&C are VERY respectful of my 2003. Many are aware of the new Gen 5, and have asked me what I think, and a couple have seen the car in person, and were impresses. All the F-car guys I hang (and drive) with have no issues with the Viper. In fact, one of them (who has a TR) has shown interest in buying a Gen 1 or 2 car. I think most F-car guys are CAR guys first, at least around here.
     
  28. Alabaster Mamba

    Alabaster Mamba Enthusiast

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    You can say that the ZR1 vs ACR isn't apples to apples all you want but the truth is that they are. The ZR1 is GM's top track car and the ACR is SRT's/Dodge's. Did you happen to notice that Chevrolet sent their ZR1 to compete against the ACR at the Nurburgring and every other comparison that they can?

    As for the comparison between the two? The only reason they are being compared is because there is no HiPo version of the Gen V yet. Once it comes out, then you will see the comparisons between Chevy's ZR1 and the ACR.
     
  29. I Bin Therbefor

    I Bin Therbefor Enthusiast

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    As I recall, the driver in the MT "test" speculated that the Viper had two issues, tires and brakes. Please note that there was no comment about the lack of HP. Brakes are an easy but expensive fix, offer ceramics as an option. The tires are another matter - that's P's problem. Remember that the M's that are on the ZR1 are barely street legal and have a very high wear rate. I was in attendence when the tire option for the ZR1 and Z06 was announced by the Vett CE. He jokingly said that they would probably last while you drove from the car dealership to the tire dealership, so you could buy another set. Not so jokingly, he cautioned the audiance that the tires were intended for track use and not for street use, the issues being wear rate and weather performance. P does make a version of its tires that are track intended but still stree legal, but I don't know if they come in Viper sizes. Nor do I know if they are the equal of M's offering.
    So if you want to work on the Gen V's lap times, you start with tires and brakes and not HP. On an interesting side note, P has signed a technology partnership with McLaren for McLaren's street cars. Any knowledge that P would gain from that relationship should find its way through the entire tire line.
    One last comment and this is definately IMHO! The fright that the early generations, espically the Gen I and Gen II, put into people was caused by a tendency to radical oversteer which resulted in spins. That issue was initially addressed by Chrysler about the time of MB's ownership. I recall testers being suprised that the Viper handled better than the Vett during those times. The suspension changes made to the Gen V tune out that suspension caused oversteer. Although, Team Viper says that with all the electronic aids turned off, you can throttle steer, which means you can induce oversteer through the application of power.
     

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