My Creampuff NA Build

[ViperTony]

Re: Plumcrazy & Greg Good Are a....

Tony,
I just completed a build that is almost identical to yours. Although I didn't monitor fuel pressure, the AF ratio was solid all the way to 6k rpm when I had it tuned last week (Chris at DC was remotely tuning it for me). I, too, think you will be fine with the stock fuel system.

Sorry for the late response, how did your build go? My tuner and I couldn't make it work this weekend but 9/25 is it. However, I couldn't take it anymore so today I took the Viper out for an all-out romp, no *****-footing. I went WOT (allegedly) where I could do it. OMG...is all I can say. I think I blew out my cats today....checking on that now.

 

[1BADGTS]

LOL Tony the mag guys had the track(E-TOWN ) last Monday (again next month )you dont need a dyno if it dont trap 130 plus somethings wrong esp this time of year

 

[plumcrazy]

he needs the dyno for tuning it.

 

[1BADGTS]

he needs the dyno for tuning it.

The car should still run 130 years ago there was no tuning .

 

[1BADGTS]

The car should still run 130 years ago there was no tuning .

let me clarify in 97 98 ect runs were conducted totally stock mopar pcm

 

[ViperTony]

LOL Tony the mag guys had the track(E-TOWN ) last Monday (again next month )you dont need a dyno if it dont trap 130 plus somethings wrong esp this time of year

I'll be as nice as I can be, stay the **** out of my thread. I don't give a rats ass about trap speeds.

 

[ViperTony]

he needs the dyno for tuning it.

AFR during WOT is very lean via my WBO gauge. Even closed loop it's leaner than it should be and it needs tuning. Frank Smith, Stamford CT Sat 9/25. Anyone in the area that's interested is welcome to attend. I'll post the time/location by the end of the week.

 

[alpha85]

Re: Plumcrazy & Greg Good Are a....

what is your e-mail

 

[Tagoo]

Re: Plumcrazy & Greg Good Are a....

Sorry for the late response, how did your build go? My tuner and I couldn't make it work this weekend but 9/25 is it. However, I couldn't take it anymore so today I took the Viper out for an all-out romp, no *****-footing. I went WOT (allegedly) where I could do it. OMG...is all I can say. I think I blew out my cats today....checking on that now.

Tony-
Everything went together smoothly. No CELs! It is harder keeping the car running smoothly at low speed with the 70mm throttle bodies. Chris at DC was able to get AF perfect on the first attempt. We ended up advancing the timing above 4K. The engine liked that. The dyno (a notoriously stingy dynojet) gave me 540hp 575tq. I took it to the track after the tune. WOW!. I need to learn how to drive this car all over again.

I only made 3 passes and none of them were clean. I kept hitting the rev limiter because the engine spins up so much faster than it used to. On my last pass, I still hit the rev limiter in 1st and ran 11.31 @ 126 (1.75 60'). That was is in the crappy humidity we have in OK (adjusted altitude was around 3000'). I'm pretty sure I can pop off a 10.99 or better at 130+ if I can remember how to drive

 

[Jack B]

AFR during WOT is very lean via my WBO gauge. Even closed loop it's leaner than it should be and it needs tuning. Frank Smith, Stamford CT Sat 9/25. Anyone in the area that's interested is welcome to attend. I'll post the time/location by the end of the week.

Tony:

have you tuned the SCT for closed loop yet?

 

[ViperTony]

Tony:

have you tuned the SCT for closed loop yet?

No, I've been playing tag with my tuner. Supposedly this Sat we'll be tuning via SCT. The only problem I'm having when slowing down to a light, the idle gets rough and has stalled a couple of times. Although it's gotten better. I need to blip the throttle to keeop it from idling too low and stalling. Checked for vacuum leaks but can't find any. Battery checks out fine. The throttle bodies seem synched up properly. Although today, I didn't encounter stalling but it's idling rough/low at the light. The last time this happened to me was when my battery died. This is a brand new battery, voltage checks out fine so I don't suspect the battery.

 

[ViperTony]

My tuner has blown me off now for two months. We were scheduled for the 16th, the 16th came and went, no show, no communication and I'm done with him.

So I have a challenge. The challenge is that if a tuner does exist in the Northeast (preferably CT) that's worth a damn, has experience (preferably SCT) and a positive reputation...show yourselves. I'm more than willing to work with you on tuning my Viper and I will glady post the experience here.

On a different note, while I was logging OBD information I found that my TPS was outputting incorrect voltage. At idle, it's outputting 17% and at WOT it's outputting 71%. So I decided to replace the TPS sensor. Went to NAPA, got a replacement and when I went to hook up the wiring harness connector, the new TPS sensor fell apart. Avoid Echlin-brand TPS, it's a POS. Also, the existing TPS sensor was a NAPA replacement as well, Echlin. Ordered a new sensor from the Wizard.

Other than that, the car runs ridiculously strong but I'm not pushing it until I a get tune done.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Sorry to hear that Tony.. you must be very eager to finetune all of your hard work!

 

[1BADGTS]

Stop fooling around go see Nick at Modern in NJ (DONE MORE VIPERS for VCA NJ than you can shake a stick at )Hes a no BS guy that tells it like it is(though you probably dont want to hear like it is lol) .His number is 732 222-3679.Does it all machining ,tuning ect

 

[ViperTony]

Hes a no BS guy that tells it like it is(though you probably dont want to hear like it is lol)

What makes you think I don't want to hear it like it is? If that's not the *** calling the kettle black then I don't know what is. As stubborn, pig-headed, psychotic, delusional, mental (on odd numbered days) and toadding as you can be you do have some valuable contributions...when you're sober. But seriously, thanks for the referral and I will call Nick. So long as a woman named 'Snooki' doesn't answer the phone I'll be ok. And thanks for the referral.

 

[1BADGTS]

No problem he will get it right tuning ect .Also DC has a program for your throttle body problem its a cam related issue.

 

[ViperTony]

No problem he will get it right tuning ect .Also DC has a program for your throttle body problem its a cam related issue.

I solved the idling problem thanks to Chuck Tator.

 

[plumcrazy]

turbopeople in hastings on the hudson to tune it ?

 

[Viper Specialty]

So I have a challenge. The challenge is that if a tuner does exist in the Northeast (preferably CT) that's worth a damn, has experience (preferably SCT) and a positive reputation...show yourselves. I'm more than willing to work with you on tuning my Viper and I will glady post the experience here.

Two options:

1. Buy SCT PRP, and try to get you set up over the computer [Easier said than done, but possible]

2. Pray that I make it to Tators BBQ in the spring this year, and I will stay an extra day to try to get the drivability of the car sorted. WOT is easy to tune w/PRP on a dyno yourself in an afternoon, or back and forth over the computer.

PS- your TPS positions will not read 0% and 100%, even on a correctly set up TPS, as those are technically out of range on the corrected sensor curve. The PCM knows the correct stop points and how they relate to the sensor curve, the scanner does not.

 

[Tagoo]

Tony,
If you can't find a tuner locally, you can do it remotely. I worked with DC Perfomance remotely with good results. I used a local dyno and had DC on standby for phone questions and SCT adjustment. We did a dyno pull then emailed the dynojet file to DC. Within 10 minutes or so, Chris at DC would look at the data, make modifications and send me the modified SCT tune file. We did this a few times until it was just right. Chris was great to work with. I think I ended up with 1.5 Hrs of dydno time. Just another option.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Tony,
If you can't find a tuner locally, you can do it remotely. I worked with DC Perfomance remotely with good results. I used a local dyno and had DC on standby for phone questions and SCT adjustment. We did a dyno pull then emailed the dynojet file to DC. Within 10 minutes or so, Chris at DC would look at the data, make modifications and send me the modified SCT tune file. We did this a few times until it was just right. Chris was great to work with. I think I ended up with 1.5 Hrs of dydno time. Just another option.

Fot WOT, that's easy. However, Tony's car is a heads/cam setup if I recall, and that take a lot more know how and seat of the pants to sort out- and considerably more time before the dyno. WOT, as I posted above, is easy to sort over the computer.

 

[ViperTony]

Dan is on the money. I've tuned for open loop when I had the Vec3 but now have the SCT. So I need someone that is intimate with the SCT (i.e. Dan) to help tune closed/open loop. As Greg promised, his heads/cam package runs fine with the stock computer. I have no driveability issues and got rid of a tempermental TPS. The Viper pulls like never before. In order to get the most out of this setup and to ensure safe AFR, I need it tuned. Most likely, I'll do it over the phone with someone like Dan here. I prefer having someone physically present and listening for detonation, etc. But I trust nobody here in CT so I'm a searchin'.

 

[1BADGTS]

Also remember if the cam has any size to it at all going to run PIG rich at idle =GREAT for washing down cyl wall ect .

 

[ViperTony]

Also remember if the cam has any size to it at all going to run PIG rich at idle =GREAT for washing down cyl wall ect .

Very true although my wideband logging is showing a stoich ~14.7 AFR at idle. I know where the lean and rich areas are within closed/open loop. Lots of logging done, just need an experienced tuner to help me bring it all together. As much as I love noodling with software I just don't have the time to learn the ins/outs of the Pro Racer package. I'd rather have someone experienced help me get a base tune, i.e. Dan, and I can work it from there as needed. Thanks for all of the advice folks, get it coming.

 

[Tagoo]

Also remember if the cam has any size to it at all going to run PIG rich at idle =GREAT for washing down cyl wall ect .

Is that true? I assumed that the O2 sensors and ecu would properly manage the A/F ratio in closed loop. Like Tony's, my cam is a 232/236 (plus 1.7 RR). Perhaps that's not big enough to cause the rich condition you mentioned?

 

[1BADGTS]

Is that true? I assumed that the O2 sensors and ecu would properly manage the A/F ratio in closed loop. Like Tony's, my cam is a 232/236 (plus 1.7 RR). Perhaps that's not big enough to cause the rich condition you mentioned?

No thats a NICE size cam and will definately cause the motor to run rich down low without tuning.Years ago before they could tune i ran a CROWER STAGE 2 (about that size )and went thru rings quickly because the car ran so damn rich .(ALSO GREATLY INHIBITED PERFORMANCE )

 

[Next Phase]

Did I miss it, what kind of hp/tq did you end up making?

 

[ViperTony]

Nope, you didn't miss it. I never got to the dyno in time before winter. I had two tuners literally blow me off. However, I've since found tuners more than willing to help and just waiting for the roads to clean up a bit here. I hope next week or the following week. I did put on over 1,000+ miles on this and WOW...logged a bit through PCMSCAN and my WBO. Changed the oil, checked over a few things and it's solid. It's been hibernating in the garage since November but not much longer now.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

No thats a NICE size cam and will definately cause the motor to run rich down low without tuning.Years ago before they could tune i ran a CROWER STAGE 2 (about that size )and went thru rings quickly because the car ran so damn rich .(ALSO GREATLY INHIBITED PERFORMANCE )

This *particular* 232 @ .050" cam, and I have sold lots of them, does not reduce manifold vacuum to the point where the pcm goes into power enrichment and idles rich.

A lot of guys run this cam with the stock pcm with no problems. They gain power with a tune, yes, but this cam will run fine on a stock pcm.

 

[ViperTony]

This *particular* 232 @ .050" cam, and I have sold lots of them, does not reduce manifold vacuum to the point where the pcm goes into power enrichment and idles rich.

A lot of guys run this cam with the stock pcm with no problems. They gain power with a tune, yes, but this cam will run fine on a stock pcm.

This is true. I was very surprised by how well the PCM "adapted" to the cam/head-work.