They are not awesome for drag racing (PS2S)as they are were on my Gen 4.Awesome would mean 1.3 sixty foot times instead the BEST drivers get 1.8s =thats not awsome.Anyone running mid 10s with them is making aroung 1000 horsepower .A mid 10 run with a mph of over 140 SHOULD BE EASILY IN THE 9S BUT the cars cant hook.
10 second Paxton car
- Thread starter black mamba1
- Start date
i think at bradenton the best time with a street tire (pirelli) was RichieSRT with 10.40 and 140+ and he was putting down 930rwhp at the time
and from his sig on the other site ""10.40/ 1.65 60' time on Pirelli Street tires""
and from his sig on the other site ""10.40/ 1.65 60' time on Pirelli Street tires""
The Viper is a car whose suspension ect is not (optimized)set up for drag racing .Any 18 year old kid with 15 grand and a Mustang can beat most Vipers on the road at the strip because of this reason.(Your local one Wend head over to E-TOWN for test and tune night .You will see Mustangs drive in from the street by teens running low 10s ,and some 9s and even 8s )To put it in perspective a friend of mines Mustang makes 425 to the flywheel yet runs 10.9 because the car is set up to drag.To run 9s in a Viper your not only going to need the power but the safety equiptment (cage ,batter switch shaft loops parachute ect )slicks skinnys drag shocks and the most important factor a great driver.Ps as i posted earlyier you also should have money put aside for gears and a tranny because 900 horsepower and 1.4 sixty foot times dont get along too well on these parts.Hey 9ball, what kind of times do u think you could achieve if you ran drag radials w/ your Paxton? Is your Z06 running better 1/4 mile times than your Paxtonized Viper? Also, how on earth are you beating cars w/ 100-150 more rwhp in a roll on? Arent roll on races really the only reason guys go to 700, 800, or up to 1000 rwhp? This high hp cars obviously do not do as well as most n/a cars in the 1/4 mile, so the roll ons must be their domain. And you are still beating higher hp cars on roll ons? I dont get it.If the Paxtonized cars pretty much **** in the 1/4 mile for the kind of power they put down, are a pain in the ass to track due to heat and reliability concerns, and if you are beating higher rwhp cars in roll ons...WHY IN THE HELL ARE GUYS PAXTONIZING THEIR VIPERS??
One thousand horsepower if he was hooking SHOULD BE 8S easily.A great 60 foot time on stock tires is 1.7-1.8 .A great 60 foot time on MT is 1.3 .Do the math one tenth on the bottom is 2 tenths up top in cars with this amount of power .Those slicks are worth an easy three quarters of a second over stock tires.
Plum on Blacks DLM car Evan got right about 10.6-10.7 (Pilots)and that car was around 750 to the tire or 850 to the crank.It was frustrating because as soon as boost came in (any gear )it blew the tires off the car .Nace was going to loan Dan his slicks and skinnys but Dan was afraid he would have broken something.
dragon rider
Enthusiast
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Stop throwing power at it and start throwIng practice at it. With your hp#'s you are capable of a mid to low 11 sec run. The driver mod is the single most important mod that can be made with these cars period. It took me over a year to go from 12.6 to 11.6 on PS2's. I make 470 rwhp. Temp was 84•.
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
There has been a lot of talk on this thread about RWHP and tires but what about launch procedure? Truth is the driver can make a second difference in ET by knowing how to drive. While we can't all become great drag racers by reading how to do it, I would like to know several things about the best way to drive these cars down the strip.
For example, how did Jaime launch his car for his 10+ second run? What rpm did he launch at? Did he slip the clutch a lot? Did he go to red line before shifting or did he shift at some other point? What was his 60 foot time?
I drag race infrequently (I prefer road racing) but I would like to improve my ET when I do.
For example, how did Jaime launch his car for his 10+ second run? What rpm did he launch at? Did he slip the clutch a lot? Did he go to red line before shifting or did he shift at some other point? What was his 60 foot time?
I drag race infrequently (I prefer road racing) but I would like to improve my ET when I do.
Ray W
Enthusiast
Black Mamba, I do mean 800-900 rwhp. Drag Strips and Dynos are two totally separate worlds. Why do you think everyone brags about their dyno numbers?
They rarely say anything about their drag times.
"The Drag Strip" is a cruel mistress.
They rarely say anything about their drag times.
"The Drag Strip" is a cruel mistress.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Pay more attention to trap speeds vs ET. ET is mostly about optimizing a chassis and having traction. The first 60' is the most important part of drag racing, and Vipers have a tough time getting the job done without breaking. My previous solid axle street cars cut 1.40's with a 6-speed. I'm running 135 mph traps without any traction, without the ability to floor the throttle until 3rd gear. How fast would it go if I could use the whole track? Probably 137-139 mph. With traction, that should be good enough for low 10s without breaking the axle. If it had the potential to cut a 1.4 60' time, easily 9s.
Stock Z06 went 11.5 @ 125 on the same day the Viper went 11.2 @ 135. I had them both at the private track rental. The Z06 was easier to launch, and I could use most of the throttle by the top of 1st.
Because some people race dyno numbers, and some people race cars.
From a roll, it takes a 140 mph trapping car to walk me. There aren't too many street cars that can run like that. Plus, the Viper is geared to hit ~160 mph in 4th gear. I can typically gain a car length on someone when they have to go into 5th before I do. I ran a 2002 Z06 with a 408ci stroker and a 200 shot of nitrous (525 rwhp motor + 200 rwhp nitrous) and he would jump out in front just as we hit it from a 60 mph roll. About the time I got into 4th gear the Viper would start creeping up to even out. By the top of 4th he was 2 cars behind. We did this run a few times. Same result. 725 rwhp nitrous C5 vs my 675 rwhp Viper. Gearing killed him. Dyno sheets don't win races.
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Vipers **** in the 1/4-mile, not just Paxton ones. They just aren't made for drag racing. All of them run slower ET's than their power suggests. Gotta have the 60' potential to get good ET's. Most IRS axle cars **** for drag racing. As for the Paxton, it was an easy way to get ~700 hp. Would I do it again? Probably not. You don't even feel the damn thing until you are going 100+ mph. I'd go twins to get a better torque curve. Still might do so...
I have decided to go ahead and take the plunge and Paxtonize my Viper, and I am going to do it this summer (while I still have a little money!).
Well it's about time! As I'm living vicariously through you and your Viper I've been waiting for this day to come for what 2 years now?
Awesome Keith! Based on your driving style and sheer fun factor you enjoy out of the Viper, the ET times won't matter to you after your first romp with the Paxton. Enjoy it my friend! 
ROCKET62
Has Left the Room!
Has anyone with a Paxton higher horsepower setup tried a LOWER gear - 2:7ish as a way to control tire spin? Seems like I recall the TT 8 sec Vipers going to a lower gear - but I cant recall any Paxton guys giving this a try as the torque of the V10 should be able to handle the lower gear and potentially minimize roasting the tires? Just a thought????
When your talking about anything above 650 horsepower on Pilots with a chasis thats optimized for road racing (not drag racing )no matter the gear the car is not going to hook .Jamie ran a 10.9 in a car that makes 540ish to the tire .People making hundreds more than that to the tire with these blower ares only a few tenths faster(their trap speeds are much greater indication they are making the horsepower BUT their spinning tires in any gear).The only way to get them semi hooked is with a set of slicks and skinnys and that can bring problems as well.
GREAT post.Many on this forum race on the dyno and dont realize it doesnt always work that way on the track.Pay more attention to trap speeds vs ET. ET is mostly about optimizing a chassis and having traction. The first 60' is the most important part of drag racing, and Vipers have a tough time getting the job done without breaking. My previous solid axle street cars cut 1.40's with a 6-speed. I'm running 135 mph traps without any traction, without the ability to floor the throttle until 3rd gear. How fast would it go if I could use the whole track? Probably 137-139 mph. With traction, that should be good enough for low 10s without breaking the axle. If it had the potential to cut a 1.4 60' time, easily 9s.
Stock Z06 went 11.5 @ 125 on the same day the Viper went 11.2 @ 135. I had them both at the private track rental. The Z06 was easier to launch, and I could use most of the throttle by the top of 1st.
Because some people race dyno numbers, and some people race cars.
From a roll, it takes a 140 mph trapping car to walk me. There aren't too many street cars that can run like that. Plus, the Viper is geared to hit ~160 mph in 4th gear. I can typically gain a car length on someone when they have to go into 5th before I do. I ran a 2002 Z06 with a 408ci stroker and a 200 shot of nitrous (525 rwhp motor + 200 rwhp nitrous) and he would jump out in front just as we hit it from a 60 mph roll. About the time I got into 4th gear the Viper would start creeping up to even out. By the top of 4th he was 2 cars behind. We did this run a few times. Same result. 725 rwhp nitrous C5 vs my 675 rwhp Viper. Gearing killed him. Dyno sheets don't win races.
Vipers **** in the 1/4-mile, not just Paxton ones. They just aren't made for drag racing. All of them run slower ET's than their power suggests. Gotta have the 60' potential to get good ET's. Most IRS axle cars **** for drag racing. As for the Paxton, it was an easy way to get ~700 hp. Would I do it again? Probably not. You don't even feel the damn thing until you are going 100+ mph. I'd go twins to get a better torque curve. Still might do so...
AbsolutHank
Enthusiast
Okay, so lemme get this straight. My car has a Paxton with 640rwhp. Are you guys more or less saying that potentially, I could get better times with my car versus a 700rwhp Viper? Trap speeds wouldn't be as high obviously, but that the ETs could possibly be lower because traction wouldn't be as much of an issue?
It depends on alot of factors tires ,track and mainly how good of a DRIVER are you.
AbsolutHank
Enthusiast
Of course...I didn't mean it in that way. Leave all the other factors the same...same driver, same temp, same track, same tires etc. One car has 640rwhp, and one has 700rwhp...generally, would the 640rwhp car have lower ETs?
An expert level driver =yes the Viper with more power should be faster.Now take the same car with a novice or average driver and that type of power can flat out intimidate .
Ray W
Enthusiast
Short answer,no. If everything is equal,the launch and the shifts, when the cars get in third and fourth gear the one with more hp will win. But it could be as little as a few feet rather than car lengths.
The point is that above 600rwhp the e.t. gains do not reflect the hp increase. The gain will be seen in the mph. So a 600hp car might run 11.10 @ 130mph and a 700hp car might go 11.05 @ 135mph. Because of traction limitations.
From a second gear roll on that extra 100hp will put some serious distance on the 600hp car.
Hey AEM EMS Guys....
I am in the middle of setting up an AEM system and trying to read/learn as much as I can. The AEM comes with 3-4 different types of traction control.( different than the corvette tc) With all the talk about traction and hooking up problems, surely at least one, if not a combination of these TC features should help. Especially on high HP, FI cars. From what I am reading, we should be able to stagger and control the hp until we can use it.
Any experiences out there?
I am in the middle of setting up an AEM system and trying to read/learn as much as I can. The AEM comes with 3-4 different types of traction control.( different than the corvette tc) With all the talk about traction and hooking up problems, surely at least one, if not a combination of these TC features should help. Especially on high HP, FI cars. From what I am reading, we should be able to stagger and control the hp until we can use it.
Any experiences out there?
OP
OP
black mamba1
Enthusiast
I am soooo excited about it Tony! It seems to be the only way to go, although you can get mixed feelings by reading the different opinions in this thread, which is why I started the thread. I am just gonna go ahead and just do it!Well it's about time! As I'm living vicariously through you and your Viper I've been waiting for this day to come for what 2 years now?
I would be lying if I didnt say I do have mixed feelings. T, you for one know how I throw my car around and the extra weight in the nose does give me pause. But like I said, I believe I can get used to it. If I ever get enough $$ I will go TT, but until then...its the centrifugal air pump. My plan is to get a Gen 4 some time next year (still keeping my Paxtonized 04), throw some headers and exhaust on that ***** and have her as my n/a track car!
OP
OP
black mamba1
Enthusiast
So, basically Paxtonizing is for roll on's...right?
OP
OP
black mamba1
Enthusiast
Let me just say this...I LOVE my car the way she is. But w/ the Belanger full exhaust she sounds a helluva lot meaner than she actually is. Chuck set her up for a blower, and I paid for the set up. It makes no sense not to blow the damn car with Manley rods and CP pistons. I'm gonna go ahead and blow this b*tch and lets the chips fall where they may!
OP
OP
black mamba1
Enthusiast
I can see 1bads point, he makes some very strong and valid arguments of why to stay n/a. If I hadnt already invested heavily for f/i set up, I would stay n/a...but it would be wasted money if I dont go to the next step.
And when I come out with a cure for cancer or aids, I will add a Gen 2 for my wife and a Gen 4 for my track experience...and I will live happily ever after!
Since no one has really answered your question for you, I'll tell you what will what a GUARANTEED setup is (assuming you live in CT, near sea level as your info says) to run a mid 10 second quarter mile EVERY single time and trap a minimum of 135mph. I usually run 138 or so. On both the street and track.
(1) 2003 - 2006 Viper - $45 - $65K (you already have this....)
(2) Stock Paxton system - $10 - $12K installed
(3) Snow Performance Water/Methanol system. With this you can easily tune the car yourself to a 10.8 - 11.0 or up to an 11.5 A/F ratio. I would stay near the bottom 11's though. - Plan on $1K - $1,200 installed.
(4) 3 gauges/ Wideband A/F, fuel pressure and boost pressure. I have the Autometer gauges that perfectly match the stock gauges.
(5) A good i.e. new shifter. $800 installed
(6) Mopar Race Exhaust - $800 for the system and $200 - $500 to install. You can do it yourself if you wanted. Pretty easy. I actually have no cats and no mufflers. Sounds absolutely crazy. Best mod I ever did.
(7) New 345-30-19 pilots (non-runcraps of course). Don't even need to buy the front ones but the car will drive and ride better if you do.
(8) Solid engine mounts. Adds some reliability to the car (greatly minimizes wheel hop which the newer tires will help a lot with anyway. (Not 100% necessary, but cheap to do if you drop the car off somewhere to have this other stuff done)
(9) Lastly and most important.... Racelogic System. Any decent Viper shop can probably install this for you. It's only a couple grand. Install $$ will vary some. When you want or need to, you can set the launch control and can go full throttle in 1st and 2nd gear and let the computer do the work. Of course if you are an expert driver you can probably equal or maybe even beat what this can do for you, but on a consistent basis, you can stick any driver in a 650-700RWHP car and they can accelerate full throttle in 1st and 2nd and have no issues. Plus you'll never put your car into the wall at the track.....
(10) A halfway decently prepped track.
There you go. 10 easy steps to consistently run a mid 10 second 1/4's. Hell your wife or girlfriend could get in the car and assuming she can catch 3rd gear will run a 10 second 1/4. No need to powershift or anything else. Just reasonably quick gear changes right at redline.
(1) 2003 - 2006 Viper - $45 - $65K (you already have this....)
(2) Stock Paxton system - $10 - $12K installed
(3) Snow Performance Water/Methanol system. With this you can easily tune the car yourself to a 10.8 - 11.0 or up to an 11.5 A/F ratio. I would stay near the bottom 11's though. - Plan on $1K - $1,200 installed.
(4) 3 gauges/ Wideband A/F, fuel pressure and boost pressure. I have the Autometer gauges that perfectly match the stock gauges.
(5) A good i.e. new shifter. $800 installed
(6) Mopar Race Exhaust - $800 for the system and $200 - $500 to install. You can do it yourself if you wanted. Pretty easy. I actually have no cats and no mufflers. Sounds absolutely crazy. Best mod I ever did.
(7) New 345-30-19 pilots (non-runcraps of course). Don't even need to buy the front ones but the car will drive and ride better if you do.
(8) Solid engine mounts. Adds some reliability to the car (greatly minimizes wheel hop which the newer tires will help a lot with anyway. (Not 100% necessary, but cheap to do if you drop the car off somewhere to have this other stuff done)
(9) Lastly and most important.... Racelogic System. Any decent Viper shop can probably install this for you. It's only a couple grand. Install $$ will vary some. When you want or need to, you can set the launch control and can go full throttle in 1st and 2nd gear and let the computer do the work. Of course if you are an expert driver you can probably equal or maybe even beat what this can do for you, but on a consistent basis, you can stick any driver in a 650-700RWHP car and they can accelerate full throttle in 1st and 2nd and have no issues. Plus you'll never put your car into the wall at the track.....
(10) A halfway decently prepped track.
There you go. 10 easy steps to consistently run a mid 10 second 1/4's. Hell your wife or girlfriend could get in the car and assuming she can catch 3rd gear will run a 10 second 1/4. No need to powershift or anything else. Just reasonably quick gear changes right at redline.
Keith ,iam sure (Budget Permitting )your car can be set up to run 9s or near 9s with just the Paxton BUT before YOU GET INTO IT YOU HAD BETTER BE AWARE OF THE PROS AND CONS.Running 9s on Pilots is just about impossible so your going to have to buy a set of slicks and skinnys (complete with wheels )for TRACK ONLY (cant street drive them )use.The slicks will provide you with the traction (if your good 1.3 sixty foot times )the Pilots could not.With this traction comes GREAT STRESS on the Vipers entire driveline (car is not engineered to launch at the rate its now being used at )so be prepared to sooner or later put a rear end ,tranny combo in the car .As far a saftey equiptment (check the NHRA rulebook )a FULL CAGE ,battery cut off ,drive shaft loops, parachute ,skattershield are all possibly mandatory.(the cage has to be NHRA APPROVED as requires a nice amount of work to get it to fit.Once in it can be a real pain in the as* to get in and out of the car not to mention greatly hinders resale.)
Are the above runs being conducted on Pilots or slicks.
Ray W
Enthusiast
Keith, from a roll on the Paxton is great. I love my base system. It works well and I have never had a single issue with it for over 9000 miles. The mistake I hope to prevent is the need for more than 700rwhp on street tires.
The best way to put it the higher the hp the higher the speed you will need to be at to prevent wheel spin on the street.
estimating about
600rwhp=40-50mph start point
700rwhp=50-60
800rwhp=70-80
So decide how you are going to roll on and remember very few start at 70mph.
The best way to put it the higher the hp the higher the speed you will need to be at to prevent wheel spin on the street.
estimating about
600rwhp=40-50mph start point
700rwhp=50-60
800rwhp=70-80
So decide how you are going to roll on and remember very few start at 70mph.
F8L SNK
Enthusiast
Get the new Mickey Thompson 345/35/18 and put the emergency brake cable relocation brackets on the car to clear 18" rims. This will allow you to get the traction you need, even on a poorly prepped track it will do good.
I don't like these tires on the street even tho I have been running around on them for about a 1,000 mi now. Run the PS2 or Nitto Invo's (better choice but they don't have the right size in 19's) for the street.
I don't like these tires on the street even tho I have been running around on them for about a 1,000 mi now. Run the PS2 or Nitto Invo's (better choice but they don't have the right size in 19's) for the street.
Viper ran 10.5@139mph on Pilot Sports (#1s) with about 720rwhp. My car had traction problems with those tires and stomping the throttle at 40mph in 4th gear at 1200rpm had disastrous consequences (like donuts and backwards driving lessons). Been there, done that.
With new PS1s shifting into 3rd gear 2 lengths in front of a Z06 (I had to start 2 lengths behind him to have enough room to fishtail all over the road before traction and passing him) I fishtailed all over the toad for over 200' (at 124mph). With the new PS2s I have even had traction in first for a cfew hundred feet and if I shift really soft I can almsot hook the tires all through 2nd gear. Chirp out of 3rd gear shift instead of fishtailing. Absolutely NO comparison.
1Tony1 also went 10.5 or 10.4 with his 750rwhp Roe on street tires.
Ted
