mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
I have used or driven with all of them one time or another on cars that have come through the shop (about 400-500 per year) so I can say pretty confidently that I have noticed the differences.
Short Throw Shifters...are they worth it?
- Thread starter PJJP
- Start date
I have used or driven with all of them one time or another on cars that have come through the shop (about 400-500 per year) so I can say pretty confidently that I have noticed the differences.
Canyon707
Enthusiast
Never.
Interesting a buddy with an 06 has the same issue. Makes me wonder if there is a tranny issue but, I don't think so. Never missed a gear It just seems like it's just not like it was when I first installed it. This revers things just started last weekend and it's all the time. Seems like something may be bent. Going to order the MGW tomorrow and compare. Also have a call into B&M.
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musclenutz
Enthusiast
WOW,I was told the MGW Short throw wasn't available for a 94 rt/10 ! Now i have the B&M Shifter coming and scheduled to install it . Isn't yours a 94 too?
Phun70
VCA Venom Member
I almost got the MGW shifter last year, but then decided to go a 'different' way- had these custom made for my Viper and for a few friends' ....... LOVE IT
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Alright, That's just ****ing sick!!!! I love it!! And I thought that my pistol grip shifter looked great!! Way cool!
Had the Woodhouse eng/trans mounts and the MGW shifter installed in two cars.....
Definitely would do it again....
For me...I stopped missing shifts right after installing the Woodhouse engine mounts and tranny mount. My shifts became much crisper when I installed my SVS shifter. I have no experience with any other short throw shifters but I would trust what Mark suggests.
Darbgnik
Enthusiast
I can understand someone wanting a better shifter, but I don't see the need for a shorter shifter.
The height of the stock shifter puts the ball close to the steering wheel, where your hands should be on a road course. Take a look at any Lamborghini manual stick, they are high as well, and close to the steering wheel, so it's not just the SRT guys that do it this way.
I guess I can see why drag racing guys would like them, but not why anyone else would. I know it looks odd how high the shifter in the Viper is compared to a Mustang or something similar, but it's not a Mustang now is it?
BTW, recently tried a GEN2 with a B&M short shifter just installed and hated it. Owner had a helluva time finding reverse.
Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions..........
The height of the stock shifter puts the ball close to the steering wheel, where your hands should be on a road course. Take a look at any Lamborghini manual stick, they are high as well, and close to the steering wheel, so it's not just the SRT guys that do it this way.
I guess I can see why drag racing guys would like them, but not why anyone else would. I know it looks odd how high the shifter in the Viper is compared to a Mustang or something similar, but it's not a Mustang now is it?
BTW, recently tried a GEN2 with a B&M short shifter just installed and hated it. Owner had a helluva time finding reverse.
Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions..........
Darbgnik
Enthusiast
BTW, I have the stock shifter with stiffer springs from Woodhouse.
I have a Hurst short shifter. It's OK. I got it with a stock shifter handle. Changed that to a MGW handle (no shaft) and like it better. Does require some strength to shift, but since I'm the only one driving ...
I had the stocker with MGW knob mentioned above and loved it. Firm solid shifts.
My ACR has stock shifter with a half height shifter handle and like it as well.
I don't like the tall ugly stock shifters. I didn't think that the Hurst was a "great mod" and I like the stock shifters with shorter knobs/handles. I've never missed a shift in any of my Vipers.
Ted
I had the stocker with MGW knob mentioned above and loved it. Firm solid shifts.
My ACR has stock shifter with a half height shifter handle and like it as well.
I don't like the tall ugly stock shifters. I didn't think that the Hurst was a "great mod" and I like the stock shifters with shorter knobs/handles. I've never missed a shift in any of my Vipers.
Ted
I have read and written (***) with several people that prefer their spring adjustment bolt (side of tranny) loosened with washers and I'm certain that if they enjoy a softer than stock shifter spring, they certainly wouldn't enjoy shorter shifters or shorter knobs.
Guess it's all about personal taste. To each his own tastes. Part of what makes this society great is that we can have input on what eveyone else likes and see alternatives to the way we do things and differences to what WE like.
IE; I really can't understand why anyone would prefer less hp than my Paxton/Nitrous ACR. I have received several comments that "it's far too much power for me." After reading about Dealership crashes and other snakebit episodes I bought the ACR because it only makes 600rwhp without the Nitrous - and it's still too much?
We may not agree with them, but you gotta love all the different viewpoints?
Ted
Guess it's all about personal taste. To each his own tastes. Part of what makes this society great is that we can have input on what eveyone else likes and see alternatives to the way we do things and differences to what WE like.
IE; I really can't understand why anyone would prefer less hp than my Paxton/Nitrous ACR. I have received several comments that "it's far too much power for me." After reading about Dealership crashes and other snakebit episodes I bought the ACR because it only makes 600rwhp without the Nitrous - and it's still too much?
We may not agree with them, but you gotta love all the different viewpoints?
Ted
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musclenutz
Enthusiast
Well,i read all the posts here and came to the conclusion the short shifter was regarded by most as better. Most seemed to prefer the 'mgw' too,so i decided to get one. After hearing how great they are i was dissapointed to find out they would not work on my gen 1 (even though someone here said they have it and love it on their gen 1)..so now i have the B&M ordered and on it's way . Now i read even more posts that they aren't as good as other's are saying. I like reading all the opinions but damn! i am so confused. Thanks for all your opinions and advice though. In the end every man has to do what he feels right . And guess what? I feel it was right to read everyone of your opinions. Now i shall go and make an appointment with my therapist
It's always best to try stuff to see if it's what you're wanting for your car. One of the reasons this club is in existense is so that we can get together and see what all the othe Viper guys are doing. VOI will show Vendors and their products, what's available and probably 400 Vipers for everyone's perusal.
"All Hail VOI"
Tell your therapist I said HI.
"All Hail VOI"
Tell your therapist I said HI.
musclenutz
Enthusiast
I am learning as i go. Just got my new header gaskets from Chuck Tator and he also sent me his Viper video . Watching it made me love my car even more. I recommend it to anyone who loves Vipers or any other car. I don't want to give the impression i don't respect all the opinions,facts and suggestions here. I respect all of them. The B&M Short throw will go in and i will decide whether i did the right thing or not. (But i really don't have a therapist..i don't need one..i will do what i always do..talk to my imaginary Viper Doctor)
supersnake
Enthusiast
Has anyone on here tried the Short Shifter in the 2010 ACR's? If so how do they work? I presume they could be installed on a non ACR. Would like some feedback to see if anyone has done this mod yet.
Sooo, your imaginary Viper Doctor's name is Chuck? He's no imaginary and you share him with many owners, lol.
Let us know what you think when you get 'er done.
Ted
black mamba1
Enthusiast
I dont like them and I think they are dangerous. On road course racing you do not have time to be feeling around for your shifter. The big stock shifter is "right there" and the added length gives you more leverage in shifting, making it easier, simple mechanics.
Notice that NASCAR drivers use big shifters similar to the stock Viper shifter. Dodge engineers know what they are doing as the Viper is a road course car first, street car second, and a drag car third.
Simple physics makes a longer shifter easier to shift, and ergonomics make the bigger shifter easier to find and grab during quick shift demands.
Short throw shifters look cool, but require more force to shift (simple physics) and the driver can easily miss the shifter during a required fast shift, thatt could lead to disaster in a race.
Notice that NASCAR drivers use big shifters similar to the stock Viper shifter. Dodge engineers know what they are doing as the Viper is a road course car first, street car second, and a drag car third.
Simple physics makes a longer shifter easier to shift, and ergonomics make the bigger shifter easier to find and grab during quick shift demands.
Short throw shifters look cool, but require more force to shift (simple physics) and the driver can easily miss the shifter during a required fast shift, thatt could lead to disaster in a race.
musclenutz
Enthusiast
I agree that long shifters are the better height and feel better at course racing as you don't want to have to find the shifter,but do any of you have trouble missing gears with the stock shifter? I am not a race car driver but i have driven plenty of four,five and six speed manual cars in my life and i think the stock shifter in my Viper has been the worst at potentially missing gears on a shift change and i have almost slammed back into second a couple times while speed shifting to fourth. That is what i am talking about here. I don't have any trouble shifting to any gear when just out for a normal drive where i am not trying to shift fast,but the few times i have nearly screwed up shifting fast makes me think the short shifter would be better. Reading a lot of posts here about it seems to confirm my thinking. I guess i will find out when i get it done . Thanks to all and everyone who posted their opinion and experiences.
musclenutz
Enthusiast
I will be putting the B&M 'Short throw shifter' in...previous owner put the shifter knob on already.Below i'll post the ad from B&M.
Product Information
B&M Precision Short Shifter Dodge Viper 92-05
A premium sport shifter engineered for the Viper enthusiasts. This Sport Shifter has all of the features a performance minded driver requires. The finest materials, CAD designed, coupled with a short throw results in one extraordinary precision shifting system. This stylized precision shifter includes many of the key features found in race shifters including a stainless steel stick assembly, a CNC machined aluminum base and a glass filled nylon pivot ball. All of this combined with a simple straightforward installation provides a professional level shifter.
Features:
-Engineered for Precision Shifts
-Shift throw reduced for quicker shifts
-303 Stainless steel stick
-CNC Machined aluminum base
-Nylon pivot ball
-Accepts stock factory knob & isolator
-Direct bolt on installation
Product Information
B&M Precision Short Shifter Dodge Viper 92-05
A premium sport shifter engineered for the Viper enthusiasts. This Sport Shifter has all of the features a performance minded driver requires. The finest materials, CAD designed, coupled with a short throw results in one extraordinary precision shifting system. This stylized precision shifter includes many of the key features found in race shifters including a stainless steel stick assembly, a CNC machined aluminum base and a glass filled nylon pivot ball. All of this combined with a simple straightforward installation provides a professional level shifter.
Features:
-Engineered for Precision Shifts
-Shift throw reduced for quicker shifts
-303 Stainless steel stick
-CNC Machined aluminum base
-Nylon pivot ball
-Accepts stock factory knob & isolator
-Direct bolt on installation
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I have the MGW/Woodhouse shifter mechanism and one of the MGW handles. If you want to you can attach the regular shifter handle to the MGW shifter mechanism. You can frabricate or have fabricated any length handle you want to have. I have had all of the following shifting mechanisms at one time or another. Stock Gen II, SVS Gen II, stock Gen III with tightened springs, and MGW. The MGW was, and is, by far the best. It is crisp and certain. It far exceeds the capabilities of the other shifting mechanisms. I prefer a shorter shifter height. I like to rest my arm on the console while shiftying and my setup allows for same. I have no problem finding a gear and never have to look down while on the highway, a road course or on an air strip. Dick Winkles and Kumo both drove my car this past January and thought the shifting mechanism was interesting but Dick mentioned all of the variables all of you mentioned above and said the way it is /was produced was determened to be the best for production but they know that shifting mechanism and shift lever length are personal choice issues.
One more thing that has not been mentioned. For single people like Chad, too long a shifter lever length on the center console could create a logistical problem in Chad/****** person nonverbal communication techniques.
One more thing that has not been mentioned. For single people like Chad, too long a shifter lever length on the center console could create a logistical problem in Chad/****** person nonverbal communication techniques.
Darbgnik
Enthusiast
I've heard the be all and end all missed shift fix is the woodhouse motor and tranny mounts.
I've heard changing out the motor mounts is a bear of a job, so I'm kinda weary to attempt it. Tranny mount switch is a joke though.
I've heard changing out the motor mounts is a bear of a job, so I'm kinda weary to attempt it. Tranny mount switch is a joke though.
black mamba1
Enthusiast
A big problem with missed gears is lack of driving. Vipers are very intense cars and it takes ALOT of practice and driving time to "get to know your car". These cars have no stability or traction aids, and come with 400 hp to 1200 hp...and to master what the car is gonna do, and to master where the gear goes; what I mean by that is that in some high torque cars the gearbox has been known to move slightly, and give the shifter a "sticky" feeling under hard acceleration...my car will do that after an hour of hard driving. The gears rotate a few degrees to the right, and I actually have to aim at my gear to hit it. But since I drive my car every weekend, I know where the gear will be and I can hit the gear.
Drivers who treat their cars as garage queens are gonna have problems with these cars. These cars each have their own personality and you gotta dirve them often to get to know them.
You dont need all that after market stuff. The ACR and the ACRX both use big shifters. Nascar uses big shifters.
And there is a reason for it.
Drivers who treat their cars as garage queens are gonna have problems with these cars. These cars each have their own personality and you gotta dirve them often to get to know them.
You dont need all that after market stuff. The ACR and the ACRX both use big shifters. Nascar uses big shifters.
And there is a reason for it.
Yes. I forgot to mention the fact that I have the Woodhouse motor and tranny mounts. They definitely help.
Keith. You are confusing the length of the shift lever with the underlying shifting mechanism. The ACRX does not use the stock Gen IV coupe shifting mechanism. It uses a tightened version - a new short throw shifter. See below. NASCAR vehicles ( I drove a 600 HP detuned one for thirty laps) have bulky transmissions with square cut gears. The shifting is rough because once you go into 4th gear, if everything goes as planned, you do not shift until you are either coming into the pit or leaving it. By the way, if you have not driven one, its alot of fun. They would not let me exceed a 40 second lap at Homestead which exceeded the school limit of 41 seconds at the time. And that was after "discussing" the situation with them at length. My top speed was 147 and my average speed was 133 MPH. I think I could have easily trimmed three seconds off my time but they would not let me go faster. The funny thing was that we actually went quite fast in the corners but the lead car backed off on the straights. The G forces in the corners really pound you. I loved it.
From the Viper Headquarters website regarding the ACRX:
DRIVETRAINDescriptionSynchronized in all gears, electronic reverse
lockout mechanisms, new short-throw shifter Gear Ratios1st – 2.66
2nd – 1.82
3rd – 1.30
4th – 1.0
5th – .80
6th – .50Axle Ratio3.07Final Drive DescriptionFrame-mounted hypoid bevel gear with GKN
ViscoLok speed-sensing limited-slip differential
DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!
musclenutz
Enthusiast
Mine is a Gen 1 and i found out from Woodhouse the MGW will not fit on it. So i am going to go with the B&M short throw shifter. My old Viper isn't a 'Garage Queen' at all..nothing i like better than taking her out for a cruise. I just am past the racing days . Still like to let 'er stretch her legs' now and then
I put on the Woodhouse modified shifter and had a factory knob shortened by 1.5". Works great and looks pretty factory. The only gears to really pay attention to are 4-5 shift and 5-6 shift. They require a little understanding of suttle jog movements to get them right if shifted quickly. Good thing they are rarely used. 1-2-3-4 are very solid and not a problem.
Then again everyone has different arm lengths, heights and that all adds to how well or different you have to treat your arm in shifting. Practice can make any shifter the perfect one, though I did notice a differece with the set-up I put on.
At first I had Woodhouse engine and tranny mounts on and they did make it bullit proof for shifting, just in and out on every gear. It was very noticeable improvement. HOWEVER, it does let a lot of vibration and noise through the drivetrain and right into the interior. After install, I had plastic interior panels rattling, the rear view mirror was useless and it was shaking all the time. I took out the mounts as the comprimise for the best shift ever could not make up for the vibration issues. Maybe over time they would have gone away but I don't rack up the miles in my Viper and I was not going to spend the few I do, like that. If I was racing, absolutely would have kept them, but for the street and most non-racer drivers, they are not the way most would want to go. A bit too much. You would get use to it after a while, but do you want to? Not me!
Now when they had the tranny out to do this, I had them install a Fidanza Lightweight flywheel, which I feel was the biggest improvement of all (aside from 3.50 gears in the rear). Some like them and some don't but they really woke the car up as the response is greatly improved. Just my opinions however.
Then again everyone has different arm lengths, heights and that all adds to how well or different you have to treat your arm in shifting. Practice can make any shifter the perfect one, though I did notice a differece with the set-up I put on.
At first I had Woodhouse engine and tranny mounts on and they did make it bullit proof for shifting, just in and out on every gear. It was very noticeable improvement. HOWEVER, it does let a lot of vibration and noise through the drivetrain and right into the interior. After install, I had plastic interior panels rattling, the rear view mirror was useless and it was shaking all the time. I took out the mounts as the comprimise for the best shift ever could not make up for the vibration issues. Maybe over time they would have gone away but I don't rack up the miles in my Viper and I was not going to spend the few I do, like that. If I was racing, absolutely would have kept them, but for the street and most non-racer drivers, they are not the way most would want to go. A bit too much. You would get use to it after a while, but do you want to? Not me!
Now when they had the tranny out to do this, I had them install a Fidanza Lightweight flywheel, which I feel was the biggest improvement of all (aside from 3.50 gears in the rear). Some like them and some don't but they really woke the car up as the response is greatly improved. Just my opinions however.
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ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
While on the Cannonball One Lap of America a couple of years ago I discussed the shifter height with Ralph Gilles and his co-driver Erich Heuschle (SRT engineer). They indicated the reason that the shifter was so high was that corporate policy required them to design every car to the 95 percentile of potential drivers. That meant they had to build a shifter that could be shifted by petite drivers that might not be strong enough to shift if the shifter was short. The height was for leverage.
I also just ordered the MGW shifter from Mark. I will have Chuck Tator put it in next week. I've tracked (road course) my car and have only missed one shift. Fortunately I caught the mistake before I fully let the clutch out. It could have been a costly mistake and that's why I'm installing the MGW shifter.
I also just ordered the MGW shifter from Mark. I will have Chuck Tator put it in next week. I've tracked (road course) my car and have only missed one shift. Fortunately I caught the mistake before I fully let the clutch out. It could have been a costly mistake and that's why I'm installing the MGW shifter.
SilveRT8
Enthusiast
I installed the Woodhouse engine and tranny mounts, this got rid of most of the wheelhop on a hard launch, and the added vibration in the shifter and mirrors is noticable but minimal in my car, really not annoying. Overall a very good mod.
Then I got the lower MGW handle wich made a nice improvement in look and shift travel. Later I also installed the MGW short throw shifter mechanisim but did not see the big change that many talk about for this mod, as I hardly feel a difference from stock.
Then I got the lower MGW handle wich made a nice improvement in look and shift travel. Later I also installed the MGW short throw shifter mechanisim but did not see the big change that many talk about for this mod, as I hardly feel a difference from stock.
musclenutz
Enthusiast
Just picked up my 94 from the shop and love the short throw (B&M) Shifter. I also had 3:55's installed and love it as well. Car is so much more fun and shifts and changes gears smoother. Drove most of the way home around 65mph in sixth gear with no problem at all. I am glad i had it done now and thanks to everyone here who posted suggestions,opinions and advice.
I may have to go B&M since I have a GenII. Along with other upgrades like, mounts and trans rebuild. =D
Has anyone driven a 6spd without a stick? That is tough, I snapped my stick in half and took a week to order a new stick, when I got it... shifting was like BUTTER! So much easier with a taller stick, no one wants a stubby stick.
Has anyone driven a 6spd without a stick? That is tough, I snapped my stick in half and took a week to order a new stick, when I got it... shifting was like BUTTER! So much easier with a taller stick, no one wants a stubby stick.
I have an extra one if any one needs. I think it is a SVS but not sure.
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